Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 10 Apr 2013
Total posts 167
Qantas pilot pay deal allowing 787s agreed by pilots!
From SBS news
Qantas' long-haul pilots have backed a planned 18-month pay freeze as part of a wages deal that moves the airline closer to buying more Dreamliners.
30 JUL 2015 - 4:46 PM UPDATED 21 MINS AGO
Qantas is closer to buying a fleet of Boeing 787-9 Dreamliner aircraft after most of its long-haul pilots agreed to an 18-month pay freeze as part of a new wage deal.
The deal, which was backed by 82 per cent of 1,165 pilots who voted in an electronic ballot, includes annual three per cent pay increases once the pay freeze lifts.
The airline's ability to strike new pay deals and wage freezes with its staff is understood to be a key factor behind whether Qantas finally decides whether to buy the new fleet of Dreamliners later this year.
"The new agreement helps build the case for future investment in new aircraft for Qantas International," a Qantas spokesman said in a statement.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
Member since 24 Aug 2011
Total posts 385
Excellent news. Now let's hope QF takes the classy move of deploying 2-4-2 in Y.
Member since 20 May 2015
Total posts 109
It would be awesome if they did this, but unfortunately they'll probably go 9-abreast.
That said, IF they go 9-abreast they could use the Thompson CozySuite (same company who made their new Business Class seat) and achieve seat widths of up to 20".
Qantas want their Dreamliners to have 275 people. This would be hard to do at 8-abreast economy unless they completely scrap Premium Economy.
A CozySuite Economy product would provide the best possible solution... significantly wider and more comfortable seats in Economy, higher density than achievable with 8-across Economy seating (at the same seat width even!), a massive improvement in Qantas' hard product, and allowing a sizable Premium Economy cabin aboard the 787-9. I ran the numbers and checked the LOPAs myself (both of Thompson's product and other airline's 787-9s) - its perfectly possible for the QF 787-9 to have 28 Business Suites (23" wide), 32 Premium Econ seats (21" wide, 38" pitch, 4 full rows of seven across with two additional side pairs as the rear row), and the rest of the craft given over to CozySuite Economy at 31" pitch and 19" width. This results in a headcount of exactly 275 pax at realistic estimates.
On the other hand, QF may decide to basically be douches and deploy yet another Sardineliner... but I think there's at least a realistic chance they'll remember that "competitiveness" and "differentiating Qantas from Jetstar" are actually important things.
Member since 07 Oct 2012
Total posts 762
Worth nothing that Thompson markets their 'CozySuite' as 10 abreast for the 787 with a 17inch seat width....be careful what you wish for :-)
There's also the unknown risk of introducing a new type of seat.
Thompson also market their CozySuite as 20" wide at 9 abreast. And Qantas did target a capacity of 275 for their Dreamliners... I've ran the numbers and 9-abreast CozySuite seating can easily achieve this, assuming the entire forward cabin is given over to business (28 J) and the front of the central cabin has 32 Premium Economy seats.
And yes, there's the unknown risk of trying something new. But Qantas is a long-haul airline so it does require comfort. Thompson make Qantas' business product, AND their economy seat can reach Qantas' desired capacity with more than enough room to spare for Premium Economy. Qantas is an inherently longer-haul airline so it needs to consider comfort, and with competition from the Middle East 3 and the Asian carriers (stiff competition to say the least) it is in a fantastic position to introduce the CozySuite at 9-abreast on a Dreamliner.
Member since 21 Apr 2012
Total posts 2,060
Still don't get what the big deal is with the 787...Why so hard up for QF to fly them?
Member since 06 Sep 2012
Total posts 98
Bargain price with Boeing is the only thing that I can come up with.
Or is a covert measure, with the 787 as a red herring, to "economically rebalance" pilot wages?
First, many people have an emotional attachment to Qantas. The 787 offers a great improvement in operational economics, so Qantas will be more sustainable (and be in a position to grow significantly) in the long run with 787s as the backbone of the fleet. This also provides an objective benefit to Australian travellers in the form of more frequent services to a wider variety of destinations.
Second, the plane offers great comfort improvements in the cabin environment. Better air pressure, cabin humidity and noise reduction most obviously. All other things being equal, its much more comfy than an A330 (note the "all other things being equal" disclaimer).
1) Does the 787 offer greater improvement in operational economics compared to say 77W or A350? Maybe we need the ABC to do a fact check?
2) Yes supposedly the cabin of a 787 is less humid, but seriously has flying in an A330 with decent seating and amenities (e.g. CX, SQ,MH etc) been that bad? Frankly I find the automatic windows of the 787 a bit gimmicky and I'm unconvinced on the subject of humidity.
3) QF's A330 older product is crap and way behind the curve. But you don't need capital investment in new planes to fix this. Importantly you need an on-going cabin renewal strategy, which SQ and CX have. This ability to constantly change cabin product to meet the times is more important than any one-off fleet renewal.
1. I don't know the exact numbers, but the Dreamliner has better ranges at lower capacities than the A350s. This would lead me to give credibility to the proposal that its better at longer-and-thinner routes than the A350 series of planes. Qantas also managed to get these planes at a very low price, which means they get new and improved planes (the Dreamliner is undoubtedly more efficient than either a 747-400 or an A330) for a bargain.
2. I've flown in a Dreamliner and I noticed the difference. It was a very comfy plane. The difference would clearly matter more over longer routes, of course.
3. Of course cabin renewal is a good thing, and Qantas is presently engaged in that.
Member since 02 Jul 2011
Total posts 835
Totally different aircraft. The 77W/350 are mega-twins - approaching the seating capacity of a 747. The 787s are smaller aircraft with greater range
Re 3. Well QF is fixing this.. The renewal is taking under two years.. CXs rollout of Cirrus took about the same
Member since 12 Feb 2014
Total posts 61
Just flew SQ from Perth. Cabin was old and tired. They renew tray tables and carpet but it doesn't hide a poor product. I noticed a whole plastic bracket fall off a business class seat. Service was great, but Qantas is definitely ahead on what they offer on this leg. Even in a 737.
Member since 12 Jun 2013
Total posts 217
Can't get "excited" about what will certainly be a nine-abreast hell-ride in the back.
One thing you can say about QF's existing longhaul fleet is that A330s, 744s and A380s have seat widths on the high end of what's possible in economy.
Hopefully they use the Thompson aero cozy suite economy
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