Why Qantas doesn't fly an a330 from Hong Kong/ Singapore to Paris and other European destinations

13 replies

timothyshears

Member since 26 Jul 2017

Total posts 17

I have previously stated that Qantas underuses its a330 on its international networks. As there are no 787s at the moment to fly to European destinations and the issues surrounding terminal allocation in Perth, I wonder why Qantas hasn't decided to fly a330s though Singapore and Hong Kong to European destinations such as Paris, Frankfurt or Rome. As there are daily flights from Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane to Hong Kong on the A330, You would think that Qantas could continue this aircraft onto European destinations. As well as this aircraft is capable of flying this distance, the smaller loads would be more economically more viable. Aswell as Qantas business, frequent flyers and Qantas Club members having access to the superb Qantas Hong Kong Lounge.

CityRail

Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer

Member since 17 Nov 2014

Total posts 78

Does A330 has the range to Paris, Frankfurt or Rome from Hong Kong/Singapore?

Also, if from HK, how will Cathay Pacific react?

hutch

Member since 07 Oct 2012

Total posts 761

It's easy to state things, but putting that from thought on the internet to an actual airline route turning a profit, ain't the same thing.


1. Rome? I'd be shocked if Qantas ever flies to Rome again. By all accounts, they don't consider Italy to offer appropriate yield.

2. For Qantas to fly to Paris or Frankfurt with an A330 from Hong Kong, it would need to cancel another service to free up a plane. In terms of corporate dollars, I assume QF thinks Asia is more important than CDG/FRA

3. The Hong Kong - Europe leg would compete against many other services - what's the competitive edge against other one-stop options?

4. It would require additional crew costs at Hong Kong over and above the direct competition.

5. Hong Kong is slot restrained. If Qantas obtained extra slots, why not use it on your core market, Australia.

6. The dispute with Perth Airport is in relation to JNB as it is not a new route for the airport. There is nothing to indicate that PER would not allow QF to use their terminal for CDG or FRA flights.

7. Can the A330 actually fly the route?



Last editedby Chris Chamberlin at Oct 15, 2018, 10:15 AM.

Becky1

Jetstar Airways - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 04 May 2018

Total posts 15

According to the Qantas website, the A330-200 has a range of 8,500km and the A330-300 a range of 7,000km (both fully loaded).


According to gcmap.com, HKG to FCO, FRA, CDG & LHR are all in excess of 9,000km, and from SIN, all in excess of 10,000km.

So Qantas A330 aircraft do not have the range unless they fly less than full. May not be economical or an appropriate use of resources given the level of competition. The A330 have been around for a few years, so whilst I agree with you that Qantas could/should add European services via Asia, the B787 aircraft would be a better choice.

On my next point, I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong, but I am of the understanding that the Air Services Agreement between Australia and Hong Kong limits flights between Hong Kong and Europe for Australian carriers to daily flights.

timothyshears

Member since 26 Jul 2017

Total posts 17

For example, if the Melbourne QF29 service connected onto Paris from Hong Kong. As this aircraft seats around 270 passengers, the load is signifcantly smaller to such loads of an A380 or 747. Along with having a smaller passenger load, this aircraft would need less Cabin crew, reducing the amount of crew being based in Paris. Along with the issue of range. The average distance from Hong Kong to Paris is 9900km. The range of the A330 is 13,450km.

hutch

Member since 07 Oct 2012

Total posts 761

For example, if the Melbourne QF29 service connected onto Paris from Hong Kong. As this aircraft seats around 270 passengers, the load is signifcantly smaller to such loads of an A380 or 747. Along with having a smaller passenger load, this aircraft would need less Cabin crew, reducing the amount of crew being based in Paris. Along with the issue of range. The average distance from Hong Kong to Paris is 9900km. The range of the A330 is 13,450km.

Yes, evidently an A330 is smaller than a 747 or A380. But Qantas would be filling these planes with Australian based crew, who are getting accommodated /fed while resting in HKG etc, which is more costly than say Cathay using their HKG staff (putting aside wages).

As for utilisation, say with QF29, the plane would currently turn around and fly back to Australia, if it went onto Paris, you need another plane. What service does Qantas cut? Manila, Narita, some Singapore flights maybe? And if you had a spare plane, why not fly it say PER-HKG?

Qantas has a competitive advantage flying to Europe non-stop out of Australia. Barring some odd change of direction, this will be the only way the Kangaroo returns to Europe.

Red Cee

Member since 15 Feb 2018

Total posts 151

People are now preferring non stop over one or multi stops. As Has been stated, there are a number of reasons flying SIN or HKG to European ports can’t be done.

Jedinak K

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

Member since 06 Sep 2012

Total posts 99

For example, if the Melbourne QF29 service connected onto Paris from Hong Kong. As this aircraft seats around 270 passengers, the load is signifcantly smaller to such loads of an A380 or 747. Along with having a smaller passenger load, this aircraft would need less Cabin crew, reducing the amount of crew being based in Paris. Along with the issue of range. The average distance from Hong Kong to Paris is 9900km. The range of the A330 is 13,450km.

The full range of the A330, or any other aircraft for that matter assumes standard seating configuration, cruising speed and weather conditions. Most airlines pack their aircraft to maximise revenue, at the expense of range (incl. QF).

GregXL

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 26 May 2014

Total posts 301

QF have operated A330-200 aircraft on Auckland to LA, which is further then Hong Kong - Paris. It could be done but plenty of reasons given above why QF could make better margins on other routes.

CBRQF

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 28 Jul 2011

Total posts 47

Love the arm chair CEOs. This is as fun as reading comments on politician's Facebook posts.

hutch

Member since 07 Oct 2012

Total posts 761

Love the arm chair CEOs. This is as fun as reading comments on politician's Facebook posts.

A favorite past time of mine 😁

xtfer

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

Member since 14 Mar 2017

Total posts 148

Of course an A330 can fly the route - they have. The range at maximum structural payload as quoted on the Qantas flight is not the actual range of the aircraft. Most aircraft at long ranges are used on routes where passenger and fuel payload weights are most efficient.


djtech

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 02 Sep 2018

Total posts 349

Hong Kong is currently the hub for partner OneWorld airline Cathay Pacific and if passengers have to have a stop anyway, why upset your partner when you can work out a codeshare deal with them?


Singapore is a better connecting point for flights to Europe. Assuming we have the range, flying to Paris or Amsterdam is likely not on the list as they currently have codeshare deals with AF and KLM to codeshare through Singapore and Hong Kong.

That leaves us with Frankfurt and Rome. Both are well connected with partner CX and would save marginal time if Qantas could have a codeshare deal and change some flight schedules around.

The point is, if you're going to stop anyway, why do it yourself for added expenses (local crew, crew rest, etc) when you can snuggle up to your partner to work out a codeshare deal to benefit you and your FFs?

If they have extra aircraft, Asia is an incredibly lucrative market for them both business and leisure, so they would operate more aircraft to Asia as much as possible. If considering that destination as a stop over, it generally does not make economical sense as many would leave half way through and getting passengers on your plane in a foreign country is often very hard. It also limits flexibility where if HK needs more capacity just dump an a380 in like QF does in summer periods but if having a stop over, QF needs to consider demand for going to europe as well.

Nick Sydney 2

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 22 Jul 2015

Total posts 82

1. Qantas just does not have enough aircraft to fly where we the paying PAX would like them to.

2. I would love to go through HK and if only QF and their frenemy CX would bury the hatchet and come up with a codeshare where we get SC and points on an equal basis then I'd drop SIN and DXB. I do prefer HK to Changi and the Qantas lounge there is fabulous.

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