Review: Qantas Boeing 787 premium economy (Melbourne-Los Angeles)
By Chris C., December 18 2017
Route
Melbourne - Los Angeles
Aircraft Type
Boeing 787-9
Airline
Qantas
Flight
QF95
Cabin Class
Premium Economy
Seat
23F
Notes
The Good
- Modern seat with plenty of storage, crisp IFE screen
- Inflight service more like business class than economy
The Bad
- Lack of seat pitch makes sleeping, aisle access difficult
- New foot rest/foot net wasn't very comfortable for sleeping
X-Factor
- Stuck in a middle seat? You actually get more space than other travellers, as the seat is wider
Introduction
Qantas boasted of a "revolutionary" design for its all-new premium economy seat created for the Boeing 787, but too little legroom and an overly-complicated footrest system detract from the seat's many positive traits. Australian Business Traveller travelled in premium economy on the Dreamliner's inaugural international flight from Melbourne to LA to bring you this review.
Check-in
- Frequent flyer program: Qantas Frequent Flyer, Oneworld.
- Checked baggage allowance: 2x23kg bags as standard on flights to North America, boosted to 3x23kg for Qantas Club members, Qantas Silver and Gold frequent flyers and most Oneworld Emerald cardholders, except for Qantas Platinum and above where the allowance is a higher 3x32kg.
- Carry-on baggage allowance: Choice of 2x115cm bags, or 1x115cm bag plus 1x185cm garment bag, up to 7kg per piece (14kg in total).
- Airport fast-track: Access to priority check-in and boarding lanes, although not Australian 'Express Path' facilities such as for security and passport control, or priority security screening when departing the USA: these perks of business class don’t trickle down to premium economy.
Lounge
As with most airlines, lounge access isn’t included with a Qantas premium economy ticket, although Qantas Club and American Airlines Admirals Club members plus Gold frequent flyers and other Oneworld Sapphire cardholders do have access to the Qantas international business class lounge in Melbourne when flying Qantas.
The lounge also welcomes travellers with single-entry Qantas lounge passes, such as provided to Qantas Silver frequent flyers and with many credit cards, including the popular Qantas American Express Ultimate and Qantas American Express Premium cards.
Higher-tier Qantas Platinum, Platinum One, Chairman’s Lounge and other Oneworld Emerald frequent flyers can instead relax in Melbourne’s Qantas first class lounge, where restaurant dining, Champagne and complimentary day spa treatments await.
Priority Pass lounge members could instead visit Bar Pulpo by MoVida or Urban Provodore for $36 in dining credit in lieu of lounge access, when the restaurant processes one 'lounge visit' on your Priority Pass account.
Still not set for lounge access or a pre-flight meal? You can also buy your way into the independent Marhaba Lounge in Melbourne at a cost of $65 per person for up to four hours.
And, from early 2018, American Express and Plaza Premium will open independent lounges in the city’s international terminal which passengers on Qantas and all other airlines can access, so even though your ticket may not include a lounge, there are a plethora of options to replace waiting at the gate.
Seat
Premium economy on Qantas’ Boeing 787-9 jets comes as a cosy four row, 28-seat cabin just behind business class and in front of economy, arranged in a 2-3-2 layout (AB-DEF-JK: the green seats).
There’s 38 inches of pitch between each row (the measurement from your headrest to the same place on the seat in front), and 20.5 inches of width (the cushion itself being 19.5 inches): except in the middle ‘E’ seats where the width is 23.3 inches.
On boarding, you’ll find a pillow on your seat, and while this can be used as any regular back pillow, it slides over your headrest too for a more comfortable ride, whether you’re sitting upright or tilting far back.
The seats have a shell around them for a little extra privacy, and this also incorporates an angled ‘mood light’, which isn’t bright enough to be a reading light (a shame there’s no dimmer to make this so), but can be used to slightly illuminate the space around you: useful when working on a laptop when the main cabin lights are out, without disturbing your neighbour more than necessary:
You’ll find the control for this at the top of the inflight entertainment screen, along with the actual overhead reading light, which is much brighter.
Meanwhile, the seat’s recline button, headphone outlet and a high-powered USB port (useful for charging tablets like iPads or the Microsoft Surface) are all next to you:
For more juice, there’s one AC power outlet shared between two passengers in the outer pairs, and two outlets between three passengers in the centre trio – an unfortunate downgrade to having one proper power point per person as many other airlines offer in premium economy.
That said, a second, lower-powered USB charging port is located directly in front of you for charging smaller gadgets like smartphones, or keeping larger tablets powered up without actually recharging them…
… along with a mesh pocket that’s suitable for smartphones, watches and other small items, and is a good place to keep your smartphone if it’s plugged into the nearby USB charger, as it’ll be out of your way…
… and if you pull the silver tab below the USB outlet, you’ll unlock the footrest, which includes two elements: a net which cradles your feet, and a paddle that supports your legs in combination with the foot net (pictured).
Here’s what that looks like from the side:
You can also use the paddle as a footrest of its own, with the height adjustable to suit (just pull the switch until you’re comfortable), even if that’s only slightly above the normal height of the cabin floor:
As for storage, there’s a cocktail table in between each seat – one table between two in the outer pairs, and two between three in the centre seats, much as with power outlets…
… plus a seatback pocket that can accommodate most laptops and tablets…
… a water bottle nook, which is handy if not a little difficult to access when your seat is reclined, or the tray table is deployed – such as when working on a laptop…
… and a little space to the side of the seat, perfect for your amenity kit or other small items:
Passengers sitting by the aisle can also lower their outer armrest for a little more space, but the switch to unlock this is tucked away underneath, so you’ll need to hunt for it.
Once located, press it and your armrest is free to move. However, it can only be fixed in place when completely raised or all the way down (pictured): you can’t nudge it down by only an inch or so – which would make some sitting and sleeping positions more comfortable – else it’ll drop completely.
When it comes to sleeping and relaxing, taller travellers will also appreciate that the seat’s headrest can be raised, including when the pillow is attached, and has adjustable side wings: although unfortunately the headrest itself can’t be angled forward to perfectly cradle your head.
Of course, you can also recline your seat. The whole thing tilts back with you, shell included, and when the person in front of you has only reclined part way as pictured, there’s still plenty of room to move about.
However, these seats can recline as far back as 9.5 inches, which is great for the person reclining, but not fantastic for the person behind. For example, here are three seats: the seat on the left is upright, the centre seat is partially reclined, and the seat on the far right is all the way back:
When there’s only 38 inches of pitch to begin with, when your seat is upright and the person in front is all the way back, that reduces your available space to 28.5 inches at the tightest point (near their headrest), making it incredibly difficult to get out and access the aisle, particularly for the centre and window passengers.
There’s still ample room to work on a laptop when the seat in front is all the way back, owing to that seat being slanted – but there’s less room for your knees, particularly if using the paddle as a footrest.
I made that discovery when the passenger in front swapped from ‘full upright’ to ‘full recline’ rather quickly, which saw my slightly-tilted inflight entertainment screen painfully crash into my kneecaps, even when my own seat was all the way back for maximum space, and rendered the footrest paddle unusable for that purpose unless positioned down near the cabin floor:
I then tried to use the net for my feet and the paddle as a leg rest instead, but didn’t find that particularly comfortable or sturdy – as resting my feet in the net pulled the paddle forward and away from me, so I resorted to sticking my feet out each side of the net, unsupported, just to have the paddle in a suitable spot.
Still unhappy with this, I spent a further 90 minutes trying various positions involving the foot net and leg paddle in an attempt to get comfortable for sleeping, but regardless of which I tried, I didn’t find success, and was left wanting the traditional, solid leg rest of Qantas’ last-generation premium economy seat (shown below).
Also regarding personal space, it’s very difficult to stand up and access the aisle when behind a fully-reclined seat – particularly for centre and window passengers who are further away from that aisle – which saw numerous travellers on my flight walking on the actual seats to get across, and jumping down into their seat and landing with a floor-shaking ‘thud’.
All things considered, on the 14-hour trek from Melbourne to LA, I managed to get literally one hour of sleep. Passengers talking loudly in the cabin didn’t help, but honestly, neither did the seat pitch, the foot net/leg paddle or my seat’s position next to the rear curtain, where I found I was bumped at least half the time somebody walked through, most commonly, when returning from the restroom.
Combine that with being awoken by ‘seat jumpers’ who found this easier than navigating behind reclined seats, and the regular disturbances made anything more than a nap difficult to achieve: and I arrived in LA dreary and red-eyed, despite normally sleeping quite well on planes.
For example, on my last Boeing 787 premium economy flight – from Ho Chi Minh City to Sydney with Vietnam Airlines, on an off-the-shelf seat with a traditional swing-up leg rest and 42 inches of pitch – I slept for 4.5 hours of the eight-hour journey.
By contrast, on Qantas’ Boeing 787 which lacks a traditional leg rest and where the pitch is a smaller 38 inches – not just proving tight, but also inducing passengers to hop over seats, making sleep for others more difficult – I managed only an hour’s kip, which is what I’d expect of regular economy, not premium economy.
Meal
Seat aside, a better part of the premium economy experience is the inflight dining, which is more ‘business class lite’ than ‘economy plus’, and begins with a choice of sparkling water, still water or sparking wine before take-off.
Normally, Australian Katnook Founder’s Block Chardonnay Pinot Noir is poured in premium economy in place of Champagne, but being the Qantas Dreamliner’s inaugural international passenger flight, this was upgraded to Jacquart Champagne (from business class) for the first round.
Drinks continue after take-off, where I opted for a simple Coke Zero, served with a snack mix…
… ahead of the dinner service approximately two hours into the flight, where passengers choose one main course to accompany a green leaf salad with balsamic vinaigrette and a peach and vincotto cake, served on the one tray.
On this flight, the options were:
- Salad of smoked salmon with kale and cabbage slaw
- Spice roasted chicken with white bean and chorizo cassoulet and gremolata
- Pork scotch fillet with braised red cabbage, roast vegetables, apple and rhubarb sauce
You can pre-order your preferred dish online up to seven days before your flight to ensure you don’t miss out on your first meal choice on board, however, pre-ordering also gives a fourth option: in this case, a lamb kofta sandwich with baba ghanoush, harissa mayonnaise and pickles, which I'd pre-requested:
The lamb itself was delicious, but much of the bread was overcooked and rock solid: and thus, inedible.
Weis ice cream bars follow for dessert, before the cabin lights were dimmed and remained so until breakfast.
If you’re peckish in between, a selection of bites can be ordered throughout the flight, including a beef brisket sandwich, spinach and ricotta spanakopita, fresh fruit, biscuits and more, although I didn’t indulge.
After a nip of wake-me-up juice, breakfast itself offers two easy-to-remember options: a continental brekky with cereal and a seasonal fruit plate, and the hot breakfast being a feta and spinach omelette, pork and apple sausage, bacon, a hash brown and braised beans, plus a fruit salad.
Normally the latter would be ‘side salad’-sized, but as the cabin crew ran out of fruit salads and I was the last passenger to be served (sitting in the back row) and had requested the hot meal, the crew offered the much larger fruit plate from the continental breakfast instead, which I accepted:
The accompanying Danish with the meal was quite hard, but the hot meal was more than acceptable, and the fruit of the fruit plate was still fresh: particularly the grapes.
Tea and coffee are available with the crew cheerily offering “milk or Baileys” after a passenger further forward makes the request, although espresso options like lattes and cappuccinos as provided in business class aren’t extended to premium economy.
Entertainment & Service
A 13.3-inch HD touchscreen sits in front of each premium economy passenger, or folds up from within the armrest for those in the first row, screening a selection of movies and TV shows on demand, plus games and music:
While the screen begins its journey in line with the seatback…
… when the person in front of you eventually reclines, you can tilt it outward to suit your preferred viewing angle.
There’s no tail camera as found on Qantas’ Airbus A380, but there’s an interactive moving map in its place.
Somebody just needs to check their measurements though, as the map was incorrectly projecting a frighteningly long route from Melbourne to LA of around 25,000km, which would only be accurate if flying from Australia to LA via London and New York, as Melbourne-LA is normally about 13,000km.
While there’s plenty of content to watch outside of the moving map, many travellers pack their own tablets to keep up with their favourite shows: and for that, there’s a tablet shelf.
You’ll find it by yanking forward the tab marked ‘pull’ underneath the screen: then, slot your gadget in, slide it over to the side so that it stays in place in the vertical holder, and let go.
The ledge keeps it firm without being so tight as to damage the screen, but do double-check that it’s snug in place to prevent it ending up on the ground.
However, when a large tablet is in place – a Microsoft Surface in my case – the digital seat controls can’t be accessed properly, such as to turn off Qantas’ own screen behind, to adjust your seat’s lighting or to call the crew, as the tablet blocks your access to these:
It’s also bothersome because the fixed inflight entertainment screen is designed to respond to the heat of your fingers, which works well when that’s the screen you’re using, but not when you’re mounting a tablet: one bump during the installation process and the screen comes back to life, even if you'd previously switched it off.
And, if you do get your tablet snug in the holder without touching the main screen, the heat of the tablet itself wakes it up – and in my case, caused the system to think I was constantly clicking in the same place, which distractingly kept opening and closing tabs, and for a moment, switched the system to Chinese.
If you’re watching the main screen sans tablet, active noise-cancelling headphones are provided – the same as handed out in business class – and while these were of a much better quality than many of the headphones I’ve tried on other airlines, it’s hard to beat a pair of BYO Bose QC35s, which I soon switched to.
Country Road amenity kits are also supplied, containing a dental kit with floss, socks and an eyeshade, with ear plugs available on request.
Overall, service from the cabin crew on today’s flight was excellent, being laidback yet not too casual and polite without being overly formal or familiar: and after introducing myself as ‘Chris’ in response to hearing “Mr. Chamberlin” at the beginning of the flight, that preference was remembered until landing, and again when I bumped into that same member of the crew at US Customs.
During the flight, the crew also advise premium economy passengers to head rearwards and use the economy class bathrooms instead of forwards for the business class lavatories, as there are none in premium economy itself – although allowances are made when trolleys are blocking the aisles between the premium economy cabin and the economy toilets.
Previously, Qantas had advised that premium economy passengers would share bathrooms with business class, but that policy must have changed at the last minute, because the bathroom indicator light at the front of premium economy actually corresponded to the business class toilets, not those of economy.
To see whether the economy lavs were available – the ones you’re supposed to use as a premium economy passenger – you have to turn around and look at a separate indicator light on the rear cabin wall, which is a bit silly.
But all in all, Qantas premium economy gives a taste of business class without the significantly higher price tag, and during waking hours is a comfortable way to fly: that is, until it’s time to sleep and the passengers in front of you recline, which is when you’ll be reminded of the second word in the name ‘premium economy’.
Chris Chamberlin travelled to Los Angeles as a guest of Qantas.
Chris is a a former contributor to Executive Traveller.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
06 Oct 2017
Total posts 35
Safe to say at 6’5 I’ll not be flying anything but J on the new Q 787... I like me knees as they currently are!
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
13 Jan 2015
Total posts 584
LOL given the long flights the 787 will operate I'd still fly only J even if I were 5'5", never mind 6'5"
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
06 Oct 2017
Total posts 35
Very true, although even in J I don’t think you’ll get me flying to London, or New York, direct! I’d much rather a stop over and some time on Terra Firma even if means a lost day!
29 Jan 2012
Total posts 173
Well done Qantas - You have totally messed up with this one. What an expensive lesson you have learn't and now need to fix. Maybe time to stop looking at the $. The reviews have damaged your PE brand, good luck repairing it.
02 Nov 2017
Total posts 34
Excellent review as always Chris.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
23 Oct 2013
Total posts 702
I can't see them changing much of the design due to the economics. Just like the Air NZ space seat if they extend the legroom enough then in that same place it would be possible to an angled flat seat with a "bed".
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
06 Oct 2016
Total posts 162
PE is such a rip off as far as I am concerned, with Qatar regularly doing low $5k in business to Europe the extra is a no brainer for any sane person, after all I am still stopping from Melbourne. To the US, well, it is one of the most expensive single leg trips in the world yet the product hasn't reflected this from Qantas (new SS2 is top notch not done 787 but have to Sing on A330) but the old one is pretty poor, and has been for this entire decade
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
23 Oct 2013
Total posts 702
If you do multi-stops or fly the lesser known airlines then it's possible to get the low 5's in peak season.
29 Oct 2016
Total posts 35
Finnair do a very good economy 'Dreamliner' fare which works very well and is more comfortable than Qantas, at least from SYD. Select the JAL B787 daytime flight to NRT and their B787 in Y is a decent 2-4-2 as per Boeing's orginal design concept (encapsulated in the 'Dreamliner' tag). Then overnight at a Narita hotel and a daytime Finnair flight on their B787 'equivalent' i.e. A350 (which is 3-3-3 but in a wider fuselage). Arrive in the evening local time ready for dinner and bed, already dialled in to local time. the comment from henrus concerning the economics of PE in the small B787 appear to have been recognised by JAL, which jettisoned it on the long haul B787 and offer a decent Y.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
22 Dec 2016
Total posts 7
I have travelled on Finnair's A35O in the first five rows of extra leg room Economy, and found both the seat width and seat comfort factor really, really disappointing. The A350 Y product is nothing to write home about at all.
29 Oct 2016
Total posts 35
Seatguru concurs re the front of United style 'economy extra', so you made a poor choice there, and anyway it is not the class I mentioned and the point wasn't about legroom anyway but the seat width down the back instead, where the wider A350 vis a vis the B787 allows a tad wider seat width, and was following on from a previous post. Why introduce an apples with orange comparison?
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
22 Dec 2016
Total posts 7
Your original comment made reference to Finnair's - A350, so instead of referring to a highly subjective seat guru review, I shared my real life experience on the AY A350 seat comfort factor that you originally thought you made reference to. the only thing that is apples with oranges is comparing two different airlines like AY who Barely offer a Full service offering and JL who excel at providing a full service offering in the Economy cabin.
24 Apr 2012
Total posts 21
J-sh largely agree with the sentiment, although JAL's 787's do have PE in their new configurations.
29 Oct 2016
Total posts 35
Excellent review Chris, although all these shortcomings were apparent from the start which Qantas PR tried to distract attention from.
Basically PE does not belong in this aircraft and Economy should be configured 2-4-2 across as per JAL and Boeing's original design concept for which they invented the 'Dreamliner' tag, hardly befitting a product where one pays a hefty premium to get no sleep and jump across seats just like down the back.
Sure the Y fare would need to be maybe 10 to 15% higher than it is now but the B787 was designed to allow point-to-point travel and most people will pay a reasonable margin for that convenience along with a bit of personal space between one's legs, shoulders and and arms and those of the seat neighbour .
29 Jan 2012
Total posts 173
Totally agree. Firstly the aircraft type is not suited to the route. To fix PE, simple, remove centre seat and make cabin 2x2x2. Then increase seat pitch by 7 in and make it a useable 45in - after all we are in this aircraft for 14-18 hrs. Improve the foot rest and increase the seat recline. It's not rocket science, but then I am not a greedy accountant with QF!
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
14 Mar 2017
Total posts 152
How does the front row compare?
24 Apr 2012
Total posts 2441
I chose a seat away from the bulkhead row to experience the flight in the way that most premium economy passengers would, although the front row has a bit of extra space thanks to there being nobody in front to recline back into you, and I saw the crew put some padded foot rest cubes in front of these passengers after takeoff (given there's no foot rest here attached to the seat), but being a commercial flight, I obviously wasn't going to ask a passenger to move out of the way so that I could 'borrow' their seat for a few photos: that'd be a big no-no! :)
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
13 Jan 2015
Total posts 584
oh well i would've let you if it were me
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
26 Oct 2017
Total posts 92
Congratulations on honest and balanced reviews unlike car and wine reviews, for example, where favourable reviews for commercial reasons abound. ABT's Integrity and credibility is enhanced, depends and thrives on such practice.
24 Aug 2011
Total posts 1209
As suspected, this sounds like a good PE competitor mucked up by poor decisions on the hard product. You have to wonder how these decisions were made. Most picked the issues with the recline and pitch as soon as QF released prototype photos of the 787 cabin; why didn't QF management identify this also and act? Likewise, the issues you have found with your tabet and the screen behind must surely have been noticed early in the piece and should have been fixed before the final product was released.
Delta Air Lines - SkyMiles
16 Oct 2017
Total posts 158
10cm more pitch on Air NZ PE.
31 Mar 2014
Total posts 378
It's a shame. What could be a great seat is effectively ruined by 38" pitch. I wonder if Qantas will listen and find some extra space. Remove a row of economy maybe?
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
01 Mar 2016
Total posts 3
Being picky - capacitive touch screens like this and what we have on modern smartphones, tablets etc, respond to the electric charge we carry in our bodies, not the heat.
24 Apr 2012
Total posts 2441
More pitch would definitely be welcome: wouldn't make the foot net any more comfortable, but would significantly improve knee room and reduce the need of other passengers to jump over seats and wake you up.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
20 Jan 2016
Total posts 61
Thanks for the great review. The toilet change sounds as though QF are at least alert to the issues of the configuration. Given the less than stellar feedback gained already, is there any indication that QF will look at a redress of the pitch? 17 hours in this seat to LHR sounds horrendous for the $ being asked over economy. Regardless of the business lite meal service. If you cant pay to be up the front of the plane you are surely going to be more comfortable paying a lot less with exit rows at the back of the plane.
Delta Air Lines - SkyMiles
16 Oct 2017
Total posts 158
As a J passenger I'd be against PE using the J lavs: not enough of them to cater for expectations of J pax. As a PE passenger I'd love to use the J lavs, rather than queue in Y. Solution: maybe dedicate at least one existing Y lav to PE pax?
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
10 Oct 2013
Total posts 113
or alternatively design the plane properly in the first place - allowing PE through to use the loo in J means those back seats in J are unusable if you want an undisturbed sleep - not a premium section if is allowed! you dont pay a premium to then have it reduced by conditions that should have been thought about in the design stages - if you are paying premium you want a premium service and QF just dont really do it now! i moved on when 4 loos on the a380 went to 2 and a shared 2!
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
28 Jul 2016
Total posts 108
Great seat, ruined by the lack of pitch.
05 May 2016
Total posts 619
So as expected a disappointing PE product (sleep problems is a major issue), but still better than Economy.
QF
04 Apr 2014
Total posts 209
Actually having tried both the PE and economy seats last week I’m not sure the PE seat is much better, at least for a tall person. Why? Because the economy seat reclines whereas the PE seat reclines and slides forward.
23 Oct 2014
Total posts 233
Ouch!
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
14 Sep 2012
Total posts 381
Thanks for the review Chris. I've only ever heard terrific reviews of QF PY from friends/colleagues flying on 747/A380 so to read the new seat on the 787 didn't meet expectations (that's how I'm reading it) is a shame. Personally physical space is really important to me so I'll defer to 747/A380 on Qantas every time, I'm not a fan of anything smaller.
23 Feb 2015
Total posts 262
A real shame for sure.
03 May 2013
Total posts 672
So much spin and hype from Qantas brainiacs. First thats a J+, J that shares lavs with Y+, Y+ thats no more comfortable than a Y seat. It looks great in pics and is a good looking seat. Wouldn't catch me dead on in J or Y+ on a 17 hour 789 leg!
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
26 May 2014
Total posts 465
The floor space allocation for PE on this aircraft is about 1.5 of Y, which is your average PE ratio. From what I see of the pricing of PE on QF, they could easily justify an increase in seat pitch. At 42 inches you would be at about 1.7 Y and then it might be revolutionary.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
17 Jan 2012
Total posts 172
Great looking seat, but poor execution with the pitch. How did the QF Management not even notice this? I haven't seen the seat in person, but even I could tell from the images that this was going to be tight.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
24 Aug 2011
Total posts 785
Excellent review. Wouldn't want to do PER-LHR in that thing outside of J.
15 Jan 2013
Total posts 36
What a shame QF has stuffed this up for the sake of 20cms extra on the plane - and that would still have been two inches shorter than Vietnam's 42 inches!
15 Jan 2013
Total posts 36
PS great review Chris - admire your willingness to take it up to QANTAS on this one.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
09 Aug 2016
Total posts 38
That arrangement with the seating doesn't sound viable in the long term. Can you image the 17 hour PER-LHR hop with people constantly 'jumping' in and out of their seats while you are trying to sleep?
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
23 Mar 2012
Total posts 211
Great review. I flew in this seat on a domestic flight and thought the leg rest, net worked well... Maybe I've got the right length legs. The pitch was a hassle even on a short flight when the seat in front reclined.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
21 Jun 2017
Total posts 37
Great review. Well done. You’d eluded to this seat being an issue on the inaugural flight so this is a great follow up and great intel. Going to avoid this cabin. (top 5% P1)
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
08 Sep 2012
Total posts 236
Great review. Qantas' hero product on the 787s is Business. It's where they make the greatest margin per seat. I reckon they've deliberately created a PE product that doesn't risk cannibalising demand for Business but that still has enough bells and whistles (esp in catering and general 'feel') to justify the significant price hike from economy including economy (with extra legroom) to PE.
I doubt QF will change the pitch. Reaction already suggests that corporates won't likely trade down to PE from Business and QF don't want to give them a reason to do so. As for those trading up, the bells and whistles will be enough to entice premium leisure travellers to pay extra for a more 'luxurious' experience, as well as giving QF a buffer mid-range product for upgrades when economy oversells, without eating into Business.
23 Feb 2015
Total posts 262
I chose to buy economy for an upcoming leisure trip. Could have afforded PE (at the expense of activities in the US mind you) but the bells and whistles weren’t in my estimation close to being good enough to justify it.
05 Aug 2017
Total posts 18
Good point - agree, but why not then skip PE all together and extend J cabin?
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
19 Jun 2017
Total posts 41
A revolutionary disaster... what a disappointing product. It promised to be something fantastic and it’s clearly off the mark. We are flying PE next week (older product) and even though it’s an aging product, I’m probably looking forward to it more than this... at least my legs won’t suffer due to someone else reclining!
07 Jan 2016
Total posts 37
Having now flown in PE on the Qantas 787 I must say this is definitely a step backwards compared to the a380 and even the 747 in terms of passenger comfort. Avoid. Avoid. Avoid.
18 Oct 2015
Total posts 28
Thanks for the review, reading this makes me so frustrated! How did Air Sydney get it so wrong? What is ‘revolutionary’ about this seat? The pitch is a national disgrace & as mentioned in earlier comments, the issues highlighted in this review were called out by ausBT readers from photographed prototypes. I really want to support Qantas & see them do well, but they well & truly cooked the 787 for the routes they want to use it for.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
28 Feb 2014
Total posts 144
Did QF not hype this product to be 'revolutionary'.
23 Feb 2015
Total posts 262
T.Rex, Elton John and Ringo Starr must be pretty upset.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
19 Aug 2011
Total posts 168
I flew NZ's Spaceseats when they were initially launched and it was almost impossible to use the IFE because it was so close to the face, but within two months the first three 77Ws were retrofitted with one row removed, and the following ones were equipped accordingly. It was very clear that the new product would be rejected by passengers.
Qantas
08 May 2014
Total posts 10
Looked at QF PER-LHR in Sep 18 and it was $5k for 2 people return in Premium Economy which is pretty good value on sale.
Qantas - QFF Platinum
20 Mar 2012
Total posts 211
Lucky QF have plenty of cash for retrofitting.
17 Sep 2015
Total posts 388
PE seems a complete waste of money on any airline, and on QF with its high fares for less than stellar features even more so.
09 Nov 2016
Total posts 2
Hi guys, I did PE bulkhead row seat F on mel to Perth last week on one of its last domestic runs. It was only slightly better as I could stretch my legs into the aisle. I was offered the foot rest but declined. Overall I still prefer the PE on the current 380 as I travel to London a couple of times a year for work. There's no way I will do the Perth London route on the 787. Would rather redirect to Singapore to stay on the 380. Hopefully the revamp of the 380 will fix the issues if this PE seat.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
26 Oct 2017
Total posts 92
Particularly excellent review Chris. Much agree of the space /seat pitch is more preferable in PE Mk.1. Personally A380 is preferable for PE and J class as the Newson Business class Pods are airy and spacious in feel compared to the new "Cocoon feet in a hole" seats when lie flat. I feel these new seat innovations in both classes are smoke and mirrors to take attention away from the real issue of cramming more passengers per given space. Qantas do have excellent cabin crew but I'm not sure that is remembered after 1 hour sleep nor can one justify the price leap from economy to what amounts to similar rest in PE. Hmmm.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
21 Jul 2013
Total posts 57
Why am I not surprised that Sydney Airlines have stuffed it up? The company shows a high level of contempt for its long-suffering passengers, especially the loyal core of them who fly QF no matter what.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
18 Aug 2014
Total posts 72
Save your coin, not worth it with that pitch..
30 Jul 2015
Total posts 108
WHAT A DISASTER!!!!
People can grumble about terrible food, sour FA's, but the seat must be good...by all accounts its not.
The reviews and feedback are horrific to say the least. QF PE is without doubt the worst seat in its class. Word will continue to spread and people WILL avoid this aircraft.
Air New Zealand - Airpoints
12 Jul 2016
Total posts 27
Cathay Pacific - Asia Miles
01 Apr 2016
Total posts 5
A comprehensive review which shows that all of the much vaunted thought given to this cabin for the PER-LHR non-stopper is all to no avail, and once again QF is left with a product inferior to that of its competitors, which is a crying shame for an airline wishing National carrier status.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
26 Oct 2017
Total posts 92
Totally agree. I guess that's what happens when seats are designed by industrial designers and seat pitch is designed by accountants.
QFF
16 May 2016
Total posts 65
I've considered PE completely overrated and massively overpriced for sometime now. When you boil it down, customers are buying PE for more space/legroom (slight F&B additions just a bonus). The second the person in front reclines, you're left questioning your purchase decision. I flew the QF 787 on SYD-MEL a few weeks ago and inspected the PE seats. I was shocked at how small the seats were and even took photos to show colleagues. If it was a 'little bit' more $$ than Y, fine. But the jump in price represents poor value.
06 Feb 2015
Total posts 2
I was looking forward to doing MEL-LAX in PE on the 789 in early January, but after this review, I'm feeling a little apprehensive.
J upgrades are in place, fingers crossed.
05 Aug 2017
Total posts 18
Good luck on the 18h PER-LHR journey.
23 Feb 2015
Total posts 262
I might be tempted by free.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
28 Feb 2017
Total posts 14
Good review, poor product. 38" Qantas? Air NZ & VA at 41-42 & no problems with seat recline, either from in front or for yourself, great leg support, no seat-jumpers, excellent service & crews. Sure, Air NZ involves a stop, but how can Qantas stuff it up with pitch? Long flights demand extra legroom, if you are willing to pay extra $s, you should receive extras in return. Good luck to anyone flying Perth-London nonstop.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
27 Jul 2016
Total posts 57
Just returned from LA today in PE on QF96 and very happy with the product. Comfortable seat (although footrest odd), great IFE and pleasant service. It's a pity the flight was 2.5 hrs late departing due to an electrical problem that persisted and resulted in losing IFE for several hours after takeoff, plus food chillers, so no hot breakfast. Seems Waltzing Matilda (787 #2) has some issues that need resolving...
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
17 Dec 2013
Total posts 8
I am a big guy and happily pay more for space, service is a nice bonus but not a necessity. If I can afford it I fly business but looking at the PE offering on the 787 on this eview I will be better off booking economy exit row and avoiding PE altogether. Thanks for the update.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
17 Mar 2017
Total posts 29
Yet the 38" pitch seems to work pretty well in PE on CX and SQ, both of which I've flown medium haul and both of which were fine, even with the seat in front reclined. Perhaps it's the shell around the QF seat and the odd footrest arrangement that negates the 38" pitch and requires additional cms to compensate. Regardless, I'm another who wouldn't fly the 787 in PE from Perth to London after this review.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
19 Oct 2015
Total posts 5
Unless I'm mistaken the seat pitch in premium economy on the 747 and A380 is also 38". I realise that seat pitch is not always an accurate way to compare seats, so is there a difference in distance between seats on the 787?
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
13 Jan 2015
Total posts 584
Qantas made up BS about coming up with some revolutionary premium economy cabin and made so much hype for a ****product that is in no way a revolution...that's where the hate is coming from.
24 Apr 2012
Total posts 2441
Hi Skyhigh, the issues are two-fold. Firstly, the design of the new seat puts your legs and feet much closer to the seat in front due to the new foot net / leg rest, compared to a traditional legrest which is much closer to your seat, without adding any extra pitch to compensate: and some functions of the foot paddle are unusable when the passenger in front reclines due to a lack of space. Secondly, if you're going to replace something tried and true like a traditional leg rest, the thing that replaces it should actually be 'better', but based on my experience with the seat, the replacement isn't. Also in saying that, 38 inches of pitch for premium economy is on the lower side to begin with: that's two inches less than Virgin Australia on flights to LAX, and four inches less than premium economy on Vietnam Airlines' Boeing 787s which fly to Sydney and Melbourne.
QF
04 Apr 2014
Total posts 209
On AA the first seats that slide to recline don’t have the footrest, and they’re not shelll seats. So there is a cutout in the rear of the seat, giving more knee room. Plus I think the pitch is maybe 40”. They work fine, perfectly fine for transcontinental flights.
29 Jan 2012
Total posts 173
26 Oct 2017
Total posts 6
Not entirely sure about the feedback being unanimously negative as suggested in the previous post.
Emirates Airlines - Skywards
30 Nov 2015
Total posts 730
Sounds like steel caps are needed on those foot rests in PE, what a stuff up. Overall PE sounds like a Sardine tin.
29 Jan 2012
Total posts 173
Simply now after trying the new product myself, feel QF has lost the balance. The previous 747 and A380 seat is a clear winner. On the 789, lets go back to 2x2x2 for PE and increase the pitch. Charge accordingly and QF would have a winner.
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