Has anyone lost all of their Frequent Flyer Points - Platinum 1 from QF - due to member dying?

25 replies

Kathleen

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 08 Dec 2012

Total posts 2

Has anyone lost all of their Frequent Flyer Points - Platinum 1 from QF - due to member dying?.

I did a Family Transfer of 100K points, before one of my work collegues called Qantas to advise that their member had passed away. This member was my Husband. This breech of privacy and subsequent loss of 200k points, will be going Legal. Anyone in Sydney wishing to take on a case?

Kathleen

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 08 Dec 2012

Total posts 2

Husband's work collegues, advised Qantas.

am

Member since 15 Apr 2011

Total posts 216

With regards to the points transferred from your husbands account (sorry to hear about your loss), clause 8.3 of the Frequent Flyer Terms and Conditions states that:

"Points earned but not yet redeemed or transferred prior to the death of the Member will be cancelled." 

Was the transfer made before or after your husband passed away? If it was before then you have grounds to ask Qantas to return them, if it was after then you haven't got a hope (and could be accused by Qantas of committing fraud, given that the points had already been invalidated when you attempted to transfer them).

I'm confused about the other 100,000 points though? If they were your points then Qantas can't just take them away. It sounds like a system error to me, and something that a quick call should sort out.

I'm also confused about this work collegue and what they have to do with this? I doubt that you'd have much of a breech of privacy argument if he was disclosing publicly available information to prevent a potential fraud (I'm looking at this legally, not personally. I'm certainly not accusing you of fraud!) 

My advice is to call Qantas and explain what has happened calmly. Write everything down before you call them, get your thoughts straight and don't get upset (you sound upset in your question). If they have made a mistake then they will almost definitely reverse it and put things right. If you have made a mistake (ie going against the T&Cs), then you need to cop it in the same way.

You need to communicate with the other side before trying to wave the law around. I can't see what Qantas has done wrong here (but confused about that other 100k points?), so I can't see how you could make a case against them.

Andie

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 05 Jun 2012

Total posts 27

Commiserations.

This brings to mind the legal battle Bruce Willis is taking against Apple iTunes. Apparently you can't gift the songs you download through your Will

David

Member since 24 Oct 2010

Total posts 992

Kathleen, I'm very sorry to hear of this tragic loss. All I can share is that when my brother died many years back, my father was able to have my brother's points directed to his (my father's) account - however, my father was also the one who advised Qantas and as such, was able to take care of the transfer to 'zero out' the account before it was closed. But it was the Qantas staffer who initiated the transfer and took care of everything,

wilsoni Banned

wilsoni Banned

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 28 Sep 2011

Total posts 302

Kathleen, my condolences also.  This raises a larger question.  Is the bank entitled to claim all the money in someone's account when they pass away?  Obviously not.  So why should Qantas (or any other company) benefit in this manner?  I know what the rules say, but they are a blatant case of misuse of market power - you have to accept or you can't join up.  It's time that lawmakers took a look at this sort of thing and put a stop to it.

Nicklg

Member since 18 Apr 2012

Total posts 15

According to the T&C you do not own the FF points, Qantas does. as you said, if you don't like it don't join up, join Velocity, but they have very similar conditions too

wilsoni Banned

wilsoni Banned

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 28 Sep 2011

Total posts 302

And that is fair and reasonable how? What about if all the banks make some T&C's that they get the money and the house when you die. Happy with that? I rest my case.

am

Member since 15 Apr 2011

Total posts 216

It's a totally different situation. You own the money that the bank stores on your behalf, but you don't own your frequent flyer points. They are a numerical value used to represent your past loyalty to the airline. The airline wants to reward YOUR loyalty, not subsidise your family's travel after your passing.

Frequent flyer points are not a tangible asset. They are a product of the relationship between company and customer, a relationship that ends when one of those parties dies.

wilsoni Banned

wilsoni Banned

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 28 Sep 2011

Total posts 302

Wrong, wrong and wrong again.  Unless you work for Qantas, whose view of reality is usually surreal.

am

Member since 15 Apr 2011

Total posts 216

Huh? I don't work for Qantas, I'm explaining their perspective as somebody who has spent a great deal of time consulting in the industry.

You know what you are signing up to and the conditions surrounding the programme. You agree to their terms and conditions, so you agree that your points expire at death. Don't like it? Join Velocity and you can specify what happens to your points after your death in your will.

hutch

Member since 07 Oct 2012

Total posts 761

Saying 'wrong' 3 times, does not make you right.

No one forces you on a QANTAS plane.

KG

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 10 May 2011

Total posts 249

Correction (to add to the wrong and right discussion). FF points are a tangible asset, or liability, depending which viewpoint you have. For QF they are a liability and most definitely the value is represented on the balance sheet of the airline. It is also not only a numerical value to represent past loyalty but actually one could consider it a monetary item. Banks, credit card companies and retailers actually pay money to QF or any other airline to obtain the FF points. This money is profit in a way for the airline, but again, they have to put the outstanding FF points as liability on their balance sheet. The trick is that they can value them under different accounting methods (will not go into detail) but you can imagine that because the airline controls inventory they can be kind of creative. The whole discussion on selling the FF business is very interesting, also in ligth of the above.

Nicklg

Member since 18 Apr 2012

Total posts 15

you can withdraw your money from a bank.. you don't own the Frequent flyer points to withdraw! simple!

KG

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 10 May 2011

Total posts 249

The fact that FF points are less liquid says nothing about  ownership..... In line with your example I can argue I have raw diamonds but cannot just rock up at a travel agent and expect them to get me a ticket to anywhere.

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