LOOPHOLE > AU-NZ Travel Bubble

89 replies

TheFreqFlyer

Member since 05 Oct 2017

Total posts 52

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by patrickk

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by patrickk

Originally Posted by OzDino

Wow, tough words. All my family, friends and associates in Europe and Asia are in lockdown, Covid is rampant with many restrictions, shops and venues closed, masks compulsory in workplaces, so why the "F" would you want to travel? Sure, the older and frail you are the greater the risk, but many young folk have succumbed as well. I think the AUS & NZ govt's are doing a bloody good job keeping our life here as normal as possible. Don't screw it up!

Agree many Australians of Indian origin were allowed to leave for India for marriages (it is the wedding and festival season) and guess what surprise surprise they caught COVID and brought it back, which let to quarantine leaks, and the rest as they say is history in WA at least.

That doesn't make any sense to me. Have weddings even been allowed to be held in India? They have draconian social distancing restrictions in place, and while I know it's not possible to nitpick and control every aspect of every person's life all the time, especially in a country with such a large population, Indians have largely been compliant. This is because the penalties for non-compliance are harsh not to mention police officers go around beating people with sticks if they're caught doing things they're not allowed to. Corporal punishment is permissible and they don't have the same respect for human rights we have in the west.

Anyway, there is no way I would go to a wedding in another country right now. Think about the logistics and expenses involved. 2 weeks quarantine upon arrival in India and another 2 weeks when returning to Australia. You'd have to be a masochist to do that.

I'm not leaving where I am until these quarantines are lifted. Even if it takes another 12-18 months. As much as I hate it, I've waited this long, what's another year? Time will go by like that. It feels like only yesterday we ushered in the new year and now it's nearly May. Of course, I can't say how long we still have to wait. Just that I have a good feeling about mid to late 2022.


Freq in India it has not only been wedding season but also state elections with rallies being led by the PM. So all those restrictions (eg a colleague in Kolkata was on 20 hours curfew per day) were dropped in February some time, and look what happened; and all was predicted

And now they've been reimposed. Many states are now back on curfew. Things are far from open or free in India at the moment, I can assure you of that.

This still needs the question considered, not about curfews in India, but people using NZ to escape from Australian border restrictions. Many have done it, many will still do it, that will continue. The question is not about if people will leave, they undoubtedly will. What remains is what restrictions are in place for people entering Australia from anywhere but especially from countries with high infection rates.

Yes, that's the same comment I've made. If people want to leave and put up with all the restrictions imposed at their destination, whether it be a quarantine upon arrival, curfews, enduring a lockdown, that's up to them.

My concern lies more with the restrictions imposed on Aussies returning home. A 14 day user paid quarantine, the need for a pre-boarding negative PCR test and multiple tests during quarantine, as well as the flight quotas being just some of them.


We have found something to agree on!

It is good to see the Australian government stop flights from countries with high infection rates, that should continue until their numbers reduce to a certain level. Then we could put alternative restrictions in place such as 28 days quarantine for anyone who has been in a high infection rate country in the previous 90 days. This will hopefully stop people going to Kuala Lumpur and finding a way in here after. It will also potentially reduce the amount of people who will use NZ to go to countries such as this as they have to consider how difficult it may be to return.

I have never said differently, from the beginning.

Anyway, let's let bygones be bygones.

Well, they could do that I suppose. Although 28 days quarantine is pushing it a bit. Hong Kong's is 21 days for arrivals from most countries, which is the lengthiest quarantine in the world.

As for Malaysia (sounds like that's where you are right now) in a surprising development, the government is imposing only a 7 day quarantine on arrivals with a negative PCR test and 10 days if you arrive without one. Has the government considered going back to the 14 day quarantine in light of the large number of daily infections being declared (averaging over 2000 a day since months)? Surprised if they haven't considered it, although perhaps they don't want to backtrack.

Thailand, which recently reduced it's quarantine down to 10 days / 11 nights for arrivals from most countries and 7 days / 8 nights for those who've recently been vaccinated is considering flip-flopping, just one month into their new scheme. This makes me think their reopening to vaccinated tourists without quarantine starting with Phuket in July, isn't going to happen. Obviously Thailand is all over the place and doesn't seem to have a grip on things.

I know Malaysia has banned entry from certain countries altogether. Thailand has only banned India, but only for foreigners. Thais in India can still return home.

Vietnam, Laos and Cambodia retain stringent 14 day quarantines.


GoRobin

Member since 07 May 2020

Total posts 70

Some people just don't get it. Vaccinated people can still get infected and transmit the virus so to countries like Australia and NZ, the 14 day mandatory quarantine period will apply to everyone outside of this small bubble.

Last editedby GoRobin at Apr 28, 2021, 08:57 PM.

Richard W

Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer

Member since 12 Apr 2017

Total posts 47

Originally Posted by GoRobin

Some people just don't get it. Vaccinated people can still get infected and transmit the virus so to countries like Australia and NZ, the 14 day mandatory quarantine period will apply to everyone outside of this small bubble.

Last editedby GoRobin at Apr 28, 2021, 08:57 PM.
I think most people understand that humans can transmit virus between them, always have and always will. If we stop travel until no virus ever gets passed on then we will never travel again. The travel bubbles will grow, absolutely guaranteed they will grow and it will not be with zero cases, it will be with vaccination and managed controls but not quarantine.

GoRobin

Member since 07 May 2020

Total posts 70

"If we stop travel until no virus ever gets passed on then we will never travel again". Isn't that exactly what has happened in Australia and NZ. You can't tell me that either of these countries has the slightest desire to challenge their populations. You can't have a half challenge. You either let the virus into the community at some stage or you don't.

Richard W

Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer

Member since 12 Apr 2017

Total posts 47

Originally Posted by GoRobin

"If we stop travel until no virus ever gets passed on then we will never travel again". Isn't that exactly what has happened in Australia and NZ. You can't tell me that either of these countries has the slightest desire to challenge their populations. You can't have a half challenge. You either let the virus into the community at some stage or you don't.

What has happened is that travel in Australia and NZ has dramatically reduced, it has never stopped because of exemptions and allowing residents and citizens to return. However, thankfully, governments are now realising that the virus will be with us for a very long time, maybe forever and are not starting to allow non quarantine travel and will expand that as time passes and vaccination increases. It does not matter that vaccinated people can still pass on the virus, governments need to open up and vaccination and travel bubbles are the way. At some point I always knew they cannot continue forever and I am glad to see these changes.

patrickk

Qantas

Member since 19 Apr 2012

Total posts 584

Originally Posted by GoRobin

"If we stop travel until no virus ever gets passed on then we will never travel again". Isn't that exactly what has happened in Australia and NZ. You can't tell me that either of these countries has the slightest desire to challenge their populations. You can't have a half challenge. You either let the virus into the community at some stage or you don't.

GoRobin we will let the virus into the community when we know it won’t hospitalise people, which we now know vaccination certainly stops. Colleagues in India whose family and friends have been vaccinated report common cold symptoms which you would expect as a lot of common colds are corona viruses.

GoRobin

Member since 07 May 2020

Total posts 70

That's a great dream patrickk. I remember last year you announcing that vaccination would be the amazing saviour to open up Australia for travel overseas once again. Well where are you now? Vaccinated people can't even get into Australia without quarantine. Australians who are vaccinated can't even get out of Australia, and if they could by some miracle they would still have to quarantine on return. So when does your dream come true? Yeah, I know, when a health expert says so. Well that's a relief. When is that???? You are so delusional it beggars belief. Quarantine is around for a long long time and state governments know this and are starting to invest in it for the long haul. So dream on patrickk and once you are vaccinated, see if it makes the slightest difference to your wish of overseas travel.

Richard W

Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer

Member since 12 Apr 2017

Total posts 47

Originally Posted by GoRobin

That's a great dream patrickk. I remember last year you announcing that vaccination would be the amazing saviour to open up Australia for travel overseas once again. Well where are you now? Vaccinated people can't even get into Australia without quarantine. Australians who are vaccinated can't even get out of Australia, and if they could by some miracle they would still have to quarantine on return. So when does your dream come true? Yeah, I know, when a health expert says so. Well that's a relief. When is that???? You are so delusional it beggars belief. Quarantine is around for a long long time and state governments know this and are starting to invest in it for the long haul. So dream on patrickk and once you are vaccinated, see if it makes the slightest difference to your wish of overseas travel.

Overseas travel has already started! Sure we will not go back to how it was for a while but as vaccinations increase it will open up even more than just the next few bubbles which will continue to open up travel.

patrickk

Qantas

Member since 19 Apr 2012

Total posts 584

Originally Posted by GoRobin

That's a great dream patrickk. I remember last year you announcing that vaccination would be the amazing saviour to open up Australia for travel overseas once again. Well where are you now? Vaccinated people can't even get into Australia without quarantine. Australians who are vaccinated can't even get out of Australia, and if they could by some miracle they would still have to quarantine on return. So when does your dream come true? Yeah, I know, when a health expert says so. Well that's a relief. When is that???? You are so delusional it beggars belief. Quarantine is around for a long long time and state governments know this and are starting to invest in it for the long haul. So dream on patrickk and once you are vaccinated, see if it makes the slightest difference to your wish of overseas travel.

GoRobin what I said has been consistent, that is when mostly everyone is vaccinated the bug will be like a common cold and we will be moving again, probably 2022. Earlier I said at the end of 2021 but the roll out in most places is slower. But the language of delusional is not helpful and disrespectful. You have consistently tend to avoid evidence of the efficacy of the various vaccines, usually because it comes from government health agencies.

Richard W

Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer

Member since 12 Apr 2017

Total posts 47

Originally Posted by patrickk

Originally Posted by GoRobin

That's a great dream patrickk. I remember last year you announcing that vaccination would be the amazing saviour to open up Australia for travel overseas once again. Well where are you now? Vaccinated people can't even get into Australia without quarantine. Australians who are vaccinated can't even get out of Australia, and if they could by some miracle they would still have to quarantine on return. So when does your dream come true? Yeah, I know, when a health expert says so. Well that's a relief. When is that???? You are so delusional it beggars belief. Quarantine is around for a long long time and state governments know this and are starting to invest in it for the long haul. So dream on patrickk and once you are vaccinated, see if it makes the slightest difference to your wish of overseas travel.

GoRobin what I said has been consistent, that is when mostly everyone is vaccinated the bug will be like a common cold and we will be moving again, probably 2022. Earlier I said at the end of 2021 but the roll out in most places is slower. But the language of delusional is not helpful and disrespectful. You have consistently tend to avoid evidence of the efficacy of the various vaccines, usually because it comes from government health agencies.

Patrickk - I agree. Vaccinations will almost totally reduce bad sickness and death. It will not stop the virus completely. Once governments stop being scared of people accusing them of allowing sickness and death then they will open up more and more international travel because of the economic benefits it provides. Hey, maybe even Mark McGowen will allow his state to open a little!!!!

TheFreqFlyer

Member since 05 Oct 2017

Total posts 52

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by GoRobin

That's a great dream patrickk. I remember last year you announcing that vaccination would be the amazing saviour to open up Australia for travel overseas once again. Well where are you now? Vaccinated people can't even get into Australia without quarantine. Australians who are vaccinated can't even get out of Australia, and if they could by some miracle they would still have to quarantine on return. So when does your dream come true? Yeah, I know, when a health expert says so. Well that's a relief. When is that???? You are so delusional it beggars belief. Quarantine is around for a long long time and state governments know this and are starting to invest in it for the long haul. So dream on patrickk and once you are vaccinated, see if it makes the slightest difference to your wish of overseas travel.

Overseas travel has already started! Sure we will not go back to how it was for a while but as vaccinations increase it will open up even more than just the next few bubbles which will continue to open up travel.

I'm pretty confident international travel will go back to normal sometime before the end of 2022. This includes into and out of Australia. The fact there is already a travel bubble with New Zealand, the first of it's type in the world that requires neither testing or vaccines, is a good sign. I expect similar bubbles with some Pacific Island destinations, such as New Caledonia, Fiji and Vanuatu will evolve, and could become like a triangle - allowing travel from Australia to New Caledonia and then onto New Zealand. Potentially these could open up before the year is up.

Travel bubbles with other destinations such as Hong Kong and Singapore, and perhaps later on, Japan, Thailand, Vietnam etc. will likely involve testing and/or vaccination, at least at the beginning.


GoRobin

Member since 07 May 2020

Total posts 70

Patrickk...I am going to tell you again that you are delusional because not everyone or not even nearly everyone is going to get vaccinated.

Last editedby GoRobin at May 03, 2021, 10:43 PM.

Richard W

Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer

Member since 12 Apr 2017

Total posts 47

Originally Posted by GoRobin

Patrickk...I am going to tell you again that you are delusional because not everyone or not even nearly everyone is going to get vaccinated.

Last editedby GoRobin at May 03, 2021, 10:43 PM.
Enough will get vaccinated that Governments will be less scared to open borders. If the vaccine is offered to everyone then government will say they have done as much as they can and not be worried people can accuse them of allowing people to die.

patrickk

Qantas

Member since 19 Apr 2012

Total posts 584

Originally Posted by GoRobin

Patrickk...I am going to tell you again that you are delusional because not everyone or not even nearly everyone is going to get vaccinated.

Last editedby GoRobin at May 03, 2021, 10:43 PM.
GoRobin I never said ever will be vaccinated, but there will be enough to ensure the health systems are not over run and when unvaccinated people are getting much sicker than vaccinated people, then they will follow suit. If it is a requirement to enter any country then that will focus the mind. I not sure if it is delusional or not to say borders will never be open, or ant vaccers are correct, but there is an element of ‘head in the sand’.

XWu

Member since 09 May 2020

Total posts 86

Posting here since the article “

“NSW-New Zealand travel bubble suspended” doesn't allow comments atm

Sure their country their rule but putting the entire NSW in the same basket as “Sydney” (or largely eastern Sydney to be exact) is going to remove any confidence for a few people booking holidays in NZ.

Heard from ABC News outlet that people from Northern NSW travelling to NZ being barred from boarding at OOL.

Really as the QF cancellation/refund/credit voucher program gets less flexible and generous (I don't know about Air NZ's policy) and goodness know how hotels and tour business in NZ is going to deal with request for refunds/cancellation while they are trying to restart their tourism industry, I suspect more people will simply wait for the other more flexible bubble destination like Singapore, (although it looks like they are going through a new cluster atm)

Not many people would accept having their money still siting as credit with businesses and their restrictive rules to use them

Last editedby XWu at May 07, 2021, 04:13 PM.

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