In light of the recent/current premium cabin/high-yielding product war going on between Qatar, Etihad, Emirates, Singapore, Cathay, Air France et al.

In light of the recent/current premium cabin/high-yielding product war going on between Qatar, Etihad, Emirates, Singapore, Cathay, Air France et al., where airlines make their money, and with Qantas evidently not in this group (and with no plans to be) - not being in a position to even be in this group - is it fair to say Qantas' premium cabin/high-yielding business is f*^%£@? The A380 product in First and Business may have been cutting edge in 2008 but I struggle to see how it can compete going forward - it is dated for modern times. Joyce points to ultra competitive market conditions, record high fuel prices etc. but is the airline's hard product good enough to compete? Perhaps the hard product is where the problem lies, or partly lies.

Qantas is clearly not in a position to do anything about this at the moment, and is unlikely to be anytime soon, and so might the mistakes of management past and present lead to further demise in the short-term future?

N.B. my comments are in regard to Qantas International and really relate to Asia, the Middle East, Europe as opposed to North America where Qantas is clearly quite healthy.

I don't have a problem with Qantas First... Okay so it doesn't have a sliding door but the rest of the product is great and definitely on par with other major airlines. 

As for Business, yes, there does need to be some consideration by Qantas on a new Business product that at least offers direct aisle access. The new A330 product, when we finally get to see it... is possibly a good offering that might be suitable across the board. It has a flat seat and it is direct aisle. The existing product on the A380 is still not that bad though... not the best but certainly not bad either.

I don't think it is the seats that cause the issues with yield on Qantas.. It is more to do with the cost of operations which then reflects on a higher cost of ticket. The hard product is really fine if the costs were comparable to other major airlines. 

I think you are being somewhat harsh on QF. Most of the airlines listed have a top notch product on some fleet with 2nd rate product on others. For example, yes EK & SQ's A380's are great, but EK's 777 product is not that great and SQ's 777-2 are not as good as their A380's.

Undoubtedly QF's A380's will need a refurb at some point, but its not urgent at this stage... the upgrade of the A330's is an urgent matter. Once the 330's are finished, perhaps once the 330's are finished a 380 refresh can be something investigated. In any case, I wouldn't want QF to go the way of EY's "residence" as I don't see that matching the market QF operates in.

But yes, if you are comparing the top product across the board, QF's would not be in the top percentile. I don't think that is the reason for money loss though.

Look at the markets that Qantas is in, it has a good grip on the premium trade between here and the US. 

Asia, is another story but their new business class, when it is finally comes online should hold well but as a 2nd rate carrier. 

It's not as stuffed as we might think, especially not to America. The European business needs a bit more thought, but I think the Emiroo and QF 9/10 retiming takes care of that.

The Asia business needs a serious rethink, though.

I was expecting more about the A330's from you..

That's the Asia rethink :P

I think SQs announcement on the 777 refurb to get consistent product is a reaction to QFs A330 plans.

Now if only QF can react to SQs plan to introduce PE

Trevor,

I fly alot with Qantas and have achieved P1 status since its inseption.I love this airline and want it to have a real future as difficult as it will be.It really is the international devision that drags the company down.

I note not one person seams to want talk about true costs.Absolutly nothing has been done by AJ or his buddy Hickey to adress the big problem...IT COSTS THEM MORE TO FLY THE A380/A330 AND FOR THAT MATTER ANY AIRCRAFT BECAUSE OF COSTS/WAGES IN THE INTERNATIONAL AREA / DEVISION.While they eliminate jobs that is necessary, the domestic operations are doing fine.

Trevor you are right in that management has made many mistakes prior to and more so during the AJ tenure.More reactive than proactive in regard cabin up grades,PE ect,to this day very inconsistant inflight service and it continues with some improvement.

In my opinion and some people will hate it.I believe they should not only seperate the International devision and off shore it.Keep it under the Qantas umbrella/red tail metal.They do it now with jet connect.I see no concerns about people continuing to fly QF international, if this were to happen as most Australians fly internationally with foreign carriers anyways.And pehaps they could recruit a CEO from outsid the club to do it.

I flew QF 11 in First yesterday from Sydney to LA and it was excellent.  Crew were great, taster menu from Neil Perry was great, and all wines were also great.  First Lounge in Sydney is the best I've been in.  I usually do the trip Stateside X4 per year in Business or First and QF is always good.  Food coming back from the USA is not so good as that delivered from Australia. I just wish that QF hadn't abandoned Perth as there is now no way to get to Europe with them.  I hate Emirates and have refusedto fly with them for ten years.

Robert, I respect your point of view, but offshoring QFi will not work. I believe that QF's Australian employees can rise to the challenge to turn QF into a competitve and sustainable first class carrier that will be around for another 100 years.

To be honest, I don't think AJ is the one to lead QF into the future. He always talks about having the board and shareholders support... But his biggest flaw, is not having the support of his staff and customers. I want Qantas to be a sustainable world class airline, operated by Australian, for the world!

Good to her from you,the problem is Qantas international can not and will not be a player unless there is change.I do not no if you own a company but if i operate an aircraft to LAX or LHL and the operational costs are way above all carrirers on all routes they operate your dead.To my knowledge/ FACT.. QF pilots/flight crew and other staff are no more experienced than any other carrier.In fact some pilots would not get a look in at a middle eastern carriers.

The reality is QF will not engage unions even for short term greed, and as you see we are all screwed.