Fifth Freedom Rights Query

5 replies

mspcooper

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 09 May 2013

Total posts 444

Why do countries like Singapore, UAE (when QF flew via DXB) offer fifth freedom rights for carriers out of their countries, but Australia does not offer this to say United States, but countries like NZ? I know the govt blocked SQ from flying to the US from here many times before.

Platyby5

Member since 20 Jul 2023

Total posts 3

Originally Posted by mspcooper

Why do countries like Singapore, UAE (when QF flew via DXB) offer fifth freedom rights for carriers out of their countries, but Australia does not offer this to say United States, but countries like NZ? I know the govt blocked SQ from flying to the US from here many times before.

Because , Qantas doesn't like quality airlines competing with them unless they are already in bed with them eg EK. Anyway

DanV

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 04 Nov 2017

Total posts 97

5th freedoms on TransPacific also need DoT (USA) approval in addition to Australia/CASA approval. I do recall DoT approved a proposal for AC to operate LAX-SYD decades ago (which eventually never went ahead), but declined SQ's application on the same sector.

Becky1

Jetstar Airways - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 04 May 2018

Total posts 25

Thailand is another example. And so is Hong Kong (I think Australia negotiated fifth freedom with Hong Kong prior to Hong Kong becoming part of China, I'm only going by memory so I may be wrong).


Singapore Airlines, Emirates, Thai Airways, Cathay Pacific all wanted multiple frequencies into multiple Australian cities (Perth, Melbourne, Sydney, Brisbane) but Singapore, Dubai, and Hong Kong are all single city, and Thailand really could only offer access to Bangkok and Phuket, so for these airlines to get what they wanted, their respective governments had to give up what Qantas wanted, and that is fifth freedom rights for Qantas to Europe and within Asia.


Qantas has previously flown Bangkok to/from London, Frankfurt, Rome, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Denpasar, and from Hong Kong to London. If my memory serves me correctly, Qantas has also in the past codeshared with Air France with Qantas flying Australia to Hong Kong and Air France Hong Kong to Paris.

Nalanji

Member since 28 Mar 2018

Total posts 23

Originally Posted by Platyby5

Originally Posted by mspcooper

Why do countries like Singapore, UAE (when QF flew via DXB) offer fifth freedom rights for carriers out of their countries, but Australia does not offer this to say United States, but countries like NZ? I know the govt blocked SQ from flying to the US from here many times before.

Because , Qantas doesn't like quality airlines competing with them unless they are already in bed with them eg EK. Anyway

Actually, Australia has granted 5th freedom rights to the USA. It has done so for decades.

Pan Am used to fly Hong Kong to San Francisco via a southern route with stops in Bali, Sydney and Auckland. Sadly, when a Pan Am 707 crashed in Bali on this route, most of the passengers who died were Australians.

If you are interested, here is the link to the US-Australia air service agreement, go to the end for the annex with the list of permitted routes.

https://www.info.dfat.gov.au/info/treaties/treaties.nsf/alldocids/93a6990b38b2c45bca2573fe000581e2

sunnybrae

Etihad - Etihad Guest

Member since 21 Jul 2019

Total posts 82

Originally Posted by Platyby5

Originally Posted by mspcooper

Why do countries like Singapore, UAE (when QF flew via DXB) offer fifth freedom rights for carriers out of their countries, but Australia does not offer this to say United States, but countries like NZ? I know the govt blocked SQ from flying to the US from here many times before.

Because , Qantas doesn't like quality airlines competing with them unless they are already in bed with them eg EK. Anyway

Brutal! But 100% true.

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