QF wanted to be able to say they were doing the first non-stop flights between Australia and London. QF has a competitive advantage stopping in PER whereas stopping in a foreign country wouldn't give them that.
In any case stopping in PER is clearly a stop gap measure before bypassing PER flying direct from the East Coast all the way once QF has the aircraft to do it profitably. The question is whether the A350-900ULR is that aircraft or not.
Thanks - yeah I get the marketing aspect. Aside from that though I just don't see it. Surely analysis could have been done re which euro countries (aside from U.K.) we get most visitors from / send visitors too and do direct flights from Melbourne to that country would be better than the domestic leg.
Using Rome as the example, but maybe Athens makes sense from Melbourne, Qantas would own the route compared to all others where a stop is required along the way.
The air service agreements for both Italy and Greece allow for 7 flights/week from Australia. They also have weekly seat limits for non operated codeshare flights. They don't appear to allow 5th freedom flights, so QF wouldn't be able to carry pax FCO-LHR or ATH-LHR like they could with HKG-LHR (7 flights/week), SIN-LHR, BKK-LHR or currently do with DXB-LHR.
The Airbus A350ULR would definitely represent a superior passenger offering despite advanced 787/778 technology. The A350ULR is a few notches in front in most categories. Wonder how many A350ULR's 8, cancelled, A380's would buy?
Just throwing this out there..... wouldn't it be interesting if VA got the jump on QF and did this instead. And take the opportunity to replace the 330s and 777s at the same time. I know they have their money issues right now, but think about it, it would be a great move and allow VA to replace the 330s and 777s with a single type and reduce their costs.
I've always thought VA should do this. It would bring a tremendous amount of publicity and if they truly want to take on Qantas, beating them on SYD-LHR/JFK would really be a kick in the teeth for QF. I've always seen the Virgin brand as being ambitious and daring and what could meet that more than having the longest flight (I believe both would be) in the world.
The Airbus A350ULR would definitely represent a superior passenger offering despite advanced 787/778 technology. The A350ULR is a few notches in front in most categories. Wonder how many A350ULR's 8, cancelled, A380's would buy?
Based on market list prices in USD (which Qantas probably got a large discount on) 8 A380s is roughly equivalent to 11 A350-900ULRs
It would make sense that QANTAS has 30 options (and 15 purchase rights) for 787 for them to take all of them, as they were bought at the start and was nice and cheap. I would think long-term, that the 787 would replace the A330 East/West, and Triangle (MEL, SYD, BRIS) and into Asia. They currently have 28 A330's....they have another
They could then use the A350 for other long and thin routes.
I don't see the one stop to LHR a big winner as more and more airlines are going Point to Point.
When you think about the Qantas experience with "ordering ahead" for the A380 and the 787, I can see why they'd go for a proven model (350ULR) third time around, rather than gamble on what the 777-X may or may not do, and any potential delivery delays.
Qantas going down the Airbus route would mean they could pick up "regular" 350-900s or even 350-1000s as 747 replacements rather than waiting for the 777-x. The Dreamlines only carry 236 people and that might be a little too thin for some routes.
Just throwing this out there..... wouldn't it be interesting if VA got the jump on QF and did this instead. And take the opportunity to replace the 330s and 777s at the same time. I know they have their money issues right now, but think about it, it would be a great move and allow VA to replace the 330s and 777s with a single type and reduce their costs.
I've always thought VA should do this. It would bring a tremendous amount of publicity and if they truly want to take on Qantas, beating them on SYD-LHR/JFK would really be a kick in the teeth for QF. I've always seen the Virgin brand as being ambitious and daring and what could meet that more than having the longest flight (I believe both would be) in the world.
The Virgin ambition is dampened by the lack of cash. Don't forget Branson trumpeted that VS would fly PER-LHR with 787's a few years back but since DL took the 49% ownership that died as well.
The Airbus A350ULR would definitely represent a superior passenger offering despite advanced 787/778 technology. The A350ULR is a few notches in front in most categories. Wonder how many A350ULR's 8, cancelled, A380's would buy?
Based on market list prices in USD (which Qantas probably got a large discount on) 8 A380s is roughly equivalent to 11 A350-900ULRs
Qantas also has another 4 options for A380s. The original order was for 12 A380s and 12 options. 8 options were later converted to firm orders.
If you would like to ask a question about Etihad Airways, please create a new topic in the Etihad Airways forum with your question, as it doesn't belong here. :)
Himeno
Himeno
Member since 12 Dec 2012
Total posts 295
The air service agreements for both Italy and Greece allow for 7 flights/week from Australia. They also have weekly seat limits for non operated codeshare flights. They don't appear to allow 5th freedom flights, so QF wouldn't be able to carry pax FCO-LHR or ATH-LHR like they could with HKG-LHR (7 flights/week), SIN-LHR, BKK-LHR or currently do with DXB-LHR.
Joe
Joe
Member since 03 May 2013
Total posts 181
The Airbus A350ULR would definitely represent a superior passenger offering despite advanced 787/778 technology. The A350ULR is a few notches in front in most categories. Wonder how many A350ULR's 8, cancelled, A380's would buy?
AmbroseRPM
AmbroseRPM
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
Member since 25 Apr 2017
Total posts 6
Lala295
Lala295
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 10 Dec 2014
Total posts 38
Based on market list prices in USD (which Qantas probably got a large discount on) 8 A380s is roughly equivalent to 11 A350-900ULRs
chap6595
chap6595
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 17 May 2015
Total posts 41
It would make sense that QANTAS has 30 options (and 15 purchase rights) for 787 for them to take all of them, as they were bought at the start and was nice and cheap. I would think long-term, that the 787 would replace the A330 East/West, and Triangle (MEL, SYD, BRIS) and into Asia. They currently have 28 A330's....they have another
Trogdor
Trogdor
Member since 11 Dec 2015
Total posts 5
When you think about the Qantas experience with "ordering ahead" for the A380 and the 787, I can see why they'd go for a proven model (350ULR) third time around, rather than gamble on what the 777-X may or may not do, and any potential delivery delays.
Trogdor
Trogdor
Member since 11 Dec 2015
Total posts 5
Qantas going down the Airbus route would mean they could pick up "regular" 350-900s or even 350-1000s as 747 replacements rather than waiting for the 777-x. The Dreamlines only carry 236 people and that might be a little too thin for some routes.
Boof
Boof
Member since 29 Aug 2013
Total posts 33
patrickk
patrickk
Qantas
Member since 19 Apr 2012
Total posts 731
Over that distance the main freight carried will be fuel.
Himeno
Himeno
Member since 12 Dec 2012
Total posts 295
Qantas also has another 4 options for A380s.
The original order was for 12 A380s and 12 options. 8 options were later converted to firm orders.
crazybenjamin
crazybenjamin
Member since 15 Dec 2015
Total posts 1
Covo95
Covo95
Member since 30 Jul 2015
Total posts 52
TravellikeaCEO Banned
TravellikeaCEO Banned
Member since 22 Aug 2017
Total posts 2
[Removed as off-topic]
Chris C.
Chris C.
Member since 24 Apr 2012
Total posts 1,116
If you would like to ask a question about Etihad Airways, please create a new topic in the Etihad Airways forum with your question, as it doesn't belong here. :)
TravellikeaCEO Banned
TravellikeaCEO Banned
Member since 22 Aug 2017
Total posts 2
Sorry