I'M BORED... but i guess that's the nature of 'social media'!! lots of opinions....'mob' mentality...no real substance.. PLEASE PRESENT YOUR CASE 'Jake'
I have to agree with undertheradar... It really is such a boring topic but what is your rationale for such a grand statement Jake... and when I say rationale, I mean a sufficient knowledge based, business rationale that demonstrates that he is not doing whatever it is he can. Then perhaps you might be able to suggest someone to replace him that would be able to do a better job?
Oh... should John Borghetti go too now that they have posted an $83 million loss? Given the size of Virgin, it is almost as substantial a loss so why not get rid of him as well?
Having worked at Qantas myself I think his style and way he communicates with his staff could improve. His focus is on turning the company around from a high-cost carrier with deeply entrenched union activity to a high-quality, financially profitable carrier minus the costly and inflexible staff conditions i.e. pilots and most cabin crew.
Although very painful to the workers and possibly bad to the brand, unfortunately this is the only way that unions would agree to changing their work conditions. Plus some bad fleet decisions in the days pre-Joyce, I believe he is doing the best he can to try ti turn the comany around.
This is why the board unequivocally support him and the direction.
As all of us in business should know, logic isn't the only consideration. There's also the character and image of the person(s) we do business with. Joyce may be defensible as an exercise in logic, he may even be capable objectively of pulling QF up by the bootstraps. But as a person he is now seen as a loser, tarred with too many failures. That rubs off on the company he works for and the trust he must merit from those he does business with. I therefore think he has to go. He's not the only capable airline CEO on offer, and more than anything QF needs a new beginning. That can't happen if people believe, even wrongly believe, that Joyce has feet of clay.
You're probably right and I don't completely disagree that he should step aside. I am just not convinced that it is the cure for all of Qantas' ills and seeing Virgin's big first half loss has kind of made me think again about whether AJ should really step down.
I fear that so much of the negativity for Qantas (and AJ) has come about from the media, who seem to love to jump onto a negative Qantas story wherever possible. Where are the big headlines that Virgin announced a $83 million loss today? Why is it that even on AusBT there is no report of that?
I don't know what the best way forward is for Qantas. Part of me wants to see AJ come back in six months with better news and part of me thinks he should go. I just don't have sufficient aviation management nouse to really pass judgement on him and whether he is the cause of Qantas' problems or if it was inevitable due to the cost of labour etc in Australia.
Wilsoni, I see where you're coming from, but you could also say that to change CEOs in the middle of a crucial time of dramatic change for the company would be really disruptive. If the CEO is the crux of the problem I would agree - witness what happened with Steve Ballmer.
Announces radical company reorg, then they kick him out a month afterwards in the midst of the reorg. Clearly that isn't ideal since the new CEO is stuck with the old strategy. But given Ballmer was the problem, it makes sense.
If its just image and marketing and feelings, then no, unless someone else has a better strategy, stay the course.
32,000 (now 27,000) employees and its all Joyce's fault? nothing wrong with James Strong & Geoff Dixon? They rode out the good times and left joyce with a carrier that couldnt compete in a changing market.
emirates dont get free fuel like some clowns think they do... they fly 777-300's everywhere and make plenty of money doing it. qantas still send 20+ year old 744's all over the place and they wonder why they cant compete. and thats joyce's fault? come on!
Horrible legacy union agreements, of which the middle eastern carriers would laugh about. Average wages widly above what other airlines pay... every single legacy USA carrier either merged or went into Chapter 11.
Joyce makes the hard decisions so he gets the blame. If he hadnt got his hands dirty, or, most importantly, signed that Emirates deal, i'd like to see where qantas is now.
i applaud what hes done - remember ansett.... old planes ended up finishing them - qantas heading that way but joyce stepped in before its too late. should be a statue of him at mascot.
There's a fine statue of Air Chief Marshall "Bomber" Harris in London. He took the tough decisions - including killing more than 50,000 civilians with a huge bombing raid on Dresden in 1945, a city of no military value in a nation where the war was all but lost. To many he's a hero, to others a war criminal - it does depend on perspective. I hear what you say josephjohn8484, but maybe no statue?
A statue for Joyce!? This is the man who grounded an international carrier because he nor his managment team have the skills to reach an agreement. As a result of the grounding, planes who were taxing to take off both here and abroad were instrcuted to return to the gate and passengers were off loaded. Is this how an airline should treat the people that keep the money rolling in. He thought he was calling the bluff of the Unions but what he essentially did was tell the world that Qantas can't handle it's labour force and as a result the customers don't matter. This should have been the turning point for the company and the changes he announced yesterday regarding fleet retirement and route cancellations should have been taken 2 years ago. If he is guilty of one thing, it is failing to take the appropriate action to restructure the company in a timely and efficient manner.
Hi Guest, join in the discussion on
does anyone else agree with me that joyce HAS TO GO
djcz
djcz
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 28 Feb 2014
Total posts 130
does anyone else agree with me that joyce HAS TO GO
undertheradar Banned
undertheradar Banned
Member since 28 Oct 2011
Total posts 234
I'M BORED... but i guess that's the nature of 'social media'!! lots of opinions....'mob' mentality...no real substance.. PLEASE PRESENT YOUR CASE 'Jake'
AusFlyer
AusFlyer
Member since 10 Mar 2011
Total posts 137
I have to agree with undertheradar... It really is such a boring topic but what is your rationale for such a grand statement Jake... and when I say rationale, I mean a sufficient knowledge based, business rationale that demonstrates that he is not doing whatever it is he can. Then perhaps you might be able to suggest someone to replace him that would be able to do a better job?
Oh... should John Borghetti go too now that they have posted an $83 million loss? Given the size of Virgin, it is almost as substantial a loss so why not get rid of him as well?
gaschmon
gaschmon
QF
Member since 19 Feb 2013
Total posts 28
Having worked at Qantas myself I think his style and way he communicates with his staff could improve. His focus is on turning the company around from a high-cost carrier with deeply entrenched union activity to a high-quality, financially profitable carrier minus the costly and inflexible staff conditions i.e. pilots and most cabin crew.
Although very painful to the workers and possibly bad to the brand, unfortunately this is the only way that unions would agree to changing their work conditions. Plus some bad fleet decisions in the days pre-Joyce, I believe he is doing the best he can to try ti turn the comany around.
This is why the board unequivocally support him and the direction.
Merc25
Merc25
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 29 Jun 2013
Total posts 317
Putting it mildly NO!!
wilsoni Banned
wilsoni Banned
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 28 Sep 2011
Total posts 302
As all of us in business should know, logic isn't the only consideration. There's also the character and image of the person(s) we do business with. Joyce may be defensible as an exercise in logic, he may even be capable objectively of pulling QF up by the bootstraps. But as a person he is now seen as a loser, tarred with too many failures. That rubs off on the company he works for and the trust he must merit from those he does business with. I therefore think he has to go. He's not the only capable airline CEO on offer, and more than anything QF needs a new beginning. That can't happen if people believe, even wrongly believe, that Joyce has feet of clay.
AusFlyer
AusFlyer
Member since 10 Mar 2011
Total posts 137
You're probably right and I don't completely disagree that he should step aside. I am just not convinced that it is the cure for all of Qantas' ills and seeing Virgin's big first half loss has kind of made me think again about whether AJ should really step down.
I fear that so much of the negativity for Qantas (and AJ) has come about from the media, who seem to love to jump onto a negative Qantas story wherever possible. Where are the big headlines that Virgin announced a $83 million loss today? Why is it that even on AusBT there is no report of that?
I don't know what the best way forward is for Qantas. Part of me wants to see AJ come back in six months with better news and part of me thinks he should go. I just don't have sufficient aviation management nouse to really pass judgement on him and whether he is the cause of Qantas' problems or if it was inevitable due to the cost of labour etc in Australia.
spinoza
spinoza
Member since 01 Feb 2012
Total posts 221
Wilsoni, I see where you're coming from, but you could also say that to change CEOs in the middle of a crucial time of dramatic change for the company would be really disruptive. If the CEO is the crux of the problem I would agree - witness what happened with Steve Ballmer.
Announces radical company reorg, then they kick him out a month afterwards in the midst of the reorg. Clearly that isn't ideal since the new CEO is stuck with the old strategy. But given Ballmer was the problem, it makes sense.
If its just image and marketing and feelings, then no, unless someone else has a better strategy, stay the course.
josephjohn8484
josephjohn8484
Member since 17 Jan 2013
Total posts 61
32,000 (now 27,000) employees and its all Joyce's fault? nothing wrong with James Strong & Geoff Dixon? They rode out the good times and left joyce with a carrier that couldnt compete in a changing market.
emirates dont get free fuel like some clowns think they do... they fly 777-300's everywhere and make plenty of money doing it. qantas still send 20+ year old 744's all over the place and they wonder why they cant compete. and thats joyce's fault? come on!
Horrible legacy union agreements, of which the middle eastern carriers would laugh about. Average wages widly above what other airlines pay... every single legacy USA carrier either merged or went into Chapter 11.
Joyce makes the hard decisions so he gets the blame. If he hadnt got his hands dirty, or, most importantly, signed that Emirates deal, i'd like to see where qantas is now.
i applaud what hes done - remember ansett.... old planes ended up finishing them - qantas heading that way but joyce stepped in before its too late. should be a statue of him at mascot.
wilsoni Banned
wilsoni Banned
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 28 Sep 2011
Total posts 302
There's a fine statue of Air Chief Marshall "Bomber" Harris in London. He took the tough decisions - including killing more than 50,000 civilians with a huge bombing raid on Dresden in 1945, a city of no military value in a nation where the war was all but lost. To many he's a hero, to others a war criminal - it does depend on perspective. I hear what you say josephjohn8484, but maybe no statue?
Mont80
Mont80
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards Platinum
Member since 01 Jul 2013
Total posts 16
A statue for Joyce!? This is the man who grounded an international carrier because he nor his managment team have the skills to reach an agreement. As a result of the grounding, planes who were taxing to take off both here and abroad were instrcuted to return to the gate and passengers were off loaded. Is this how an airline should treat the people that keep the money rolling in. He thought he was calling the bluff of the Unions but what he essentially did was tell the world that Qantas can't handle it's labour force and as a result the customers don't matter. This should have been the turning point for the company and the changes he announced yesterday regarding fleet retirement and route cancellations should have been taken 2 years ago. If he is guilty of one thing, it is failing to take the appropriate action to restructure the company in a timely and efficient manner.