I am wondering how many of the first seats on the A380 are revenue fares and how many are upgrades? When I check expert flyer the first cabin is essentially empty until the upgrades open up. Is this why the quality in first is declining. The last few timed I have flown the food has been sub-par business quality, the staff are usually good and the bed is excellent. Just wondering if qantas see no merit in making their first cabin competitive with emirates, ethihad, Singapore airlines etc if most of the customers are there on upgrades.
Nobody outside Qantas would know for sure but I would think on a flagship route like Sydney-London and Sydney-LAX plus the longer SYD-DFW flight it'd be 50/50 or a bit higher for people buying a ticket with money versus those claiming a reward seat with points or upgrading from business class. Of the 14 QF A380 first class suites I can't image more than 10 being actually sold. For seasonal routes like the A380 scheduled onto SYD-HKG every summer I reckon almost nobody buys first class, it's prohably mainly upgrades.
I also agree with you about QF First in general, it's a good seat and has great staff, but the meals are not up to 'first class' standard. But there will always be people who want to fly in first class because they simply don't want to be in business, because they want that much better seat and bed, and because they either have a contract which specifies first class travel or they just have so much money that they only fly first class.
On flights to and from the US, they are the only carrier with a First Class. And while the A380's current Business class is sub-standard, their First is no-doubt a step above their competition's Business products, so has a value proposition for people who can afford it. I would think its the European route where there is far more competition with the Middle Eastern and Asian carriers, where it becomes more difficult to sell seats.
Having First does potentially gets people to pay for Business Class so they can upgrade - when otherwise they might pay for economy and upgrade to Business.
It is a common misconception that no-one pays for QF First class seats. I regularly fly QF1/2 and 11/12, and a month out from the flight it is normal for 50% to 66% of all seats in F to be allocated. Given that there are now very few award seats in F on these flights, and none on QF1/2, then I believe that the majority of seats in F are sold.
It would vary from flight to flight - I've certainly seen some flights where first is completely booked well ahead of departure (not just via upgrades), and have also taken a flight where I was advised I was the only passenger booked into First the day before departure and had the entire cabin to myself (a points-based booking to Hong Kong), but on the day of travel the cabin was almost full but with a couple of seats spare after upgrades from business class had been processed.
At the end of the day, if First wasn't making money for Qantas, they wouldn't keep it on the aircraft - they just limit the routes where it's available based on demand: remembering they chose to make First an A380-only product a few years back, when previously it was available on Boeing 747 flights to Johannesburg as well, and on 747 flights to Hong Kong, etc.
It would vary from flight to flight - I've certainly seen some flights where first is completely booked well ahead of departure (not just via upgrades), and have also taken a flight where I was advised I was the only passenger booked into First the day before departure and had the entire cabin to myself (a points-based booking to Hong Kong), but on the day of travel the cabin was almost full but with a couple of seats spare after upgrades from business class had been processed.
At the end of the day, if First wasn't making money for Qantas, they wouldn't keep it on the aircraft - they just limit the routes where it's available based on demand: remembering they chose to make First an A380-only product a few years back, when previously it was available on Boeing 747 flights to Johannesburg as well, and on 747 flights to Hong Kong, etc.
Chris, I wonder if the main value to Qantas is to reward the platinums and above for their loyalty? There must be a value in this for them also? I take a paid F fare every year to maintain my P status with Qantas but rarely see more than 2 seats booked until t-72. I do also find that entirely filling the cabin with upgrades devalues the F product. Many other carriers do not do this unless they need op-ups ( Air France, Emirates etc)
First class is big plus for the very big corporate accounts whose executives
fly a lot. Having a ready first class seat for the big boss is a big plus for winning/keeping the account. So half sold per flight is a good investment.
You have to remember there’s a LOT of people with SO much money they have no way in spending it all. My boss regularly takes his whole family of 5 on first class trips to the US. Fully paid for in cash. His youngest child is 4. Imagine splurging close to $20k for your 4 year old in first class...
You have to remember there’s a LOT of people with SO much money they have no way in spending it all. My boss regularly takes his whole family of 5 on first class trips to the US. Fully paid for in cash. His youngest child is 4. Imagine splurging close to $20k for your 4 year old in first class...
I'm not anti private enterprise, but that's obscene. Far from the humility those such as Mother Teresa practised.
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Does anyone still pay for a Qantas first class fare?
obanpointer
obanpointer
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 08 Jun 2014
Total posts 318
I am wondering how many of the first seats on the A380 are revenue fares and how many are upgrades? When I check expert flyer the first cabin is essentially empty until the upgrades open up. Is this why the quality in first is declining. The last few timed I have flown the food has been sub-par business quality, the staff are usually good and the bed is excellent. Just wondering if qantas see no merit in making their first cabin competitive with emirates, ethihad, Singapore airlines etc if most of the customers are there on upgrades.
Mal
Mal
Member since 14 Jun 2013
Total posts 109
andyf
andyf
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
Member since 07 Dec 2014
Total posts 55
On flights to and from the US, they are the only carrier with a First Class. And while the A380's current Business class is sub-standard, their First is no-doubt a step above their competition's Business products, so has a value proposition for people who can afford it. I would think its the European route where there is far more competition with the Middle Eastern and Asian carriers, where it becomes more difficult to sell seats.
Phil Young
Phil Young
Qantas
Member since 22 Oct 2012
Total posts 253
It is a common misconception that no-one pays for QF First class seats. I regularly fly QF1/2 and 11/12, and a month out from the flight it is normal for 50% to 66% of all seats in F to be allocated. Given that there are now very few award seats in F on these flights, and none on QF1/2, then I believe that the majority of seats in F are sold.
Chris C.
Chris C.
Member since 24 Apr 2012
Total posts 1,116
It would vary from flight to flight - I've certainly seen some flights where first is completely booked well ahead of departure (not just via upgrades), and have also taken a flight where I was advised I was the only passenger booked into First the day before departure and had the entire cabin to myself (a points-based booking to Hong Kong), but on the day of travel the cabin was almost full but with a couple of seats spare after upgrades from business class had been processed.
At the end of the day, if First wasn't making money for Qantas, they wouldn't keep it on the aircraft - they just limit the routes where it's available based on demand: remembering they chose to make First an A380-only product a few years back, when previously it was available on Boeing 747 flights to Johannesburg as well, and on 747 flights to Hong Kong, etc.
obanpointer
obanpointer
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 08 Jun 2014
Total posts 318
At the end of the day, if First wasn't making money for Qantas, they wouldn't keep it on the aircraft - they just limit the routes where it's available based on demand: remembering they chose to make First an A380-only product a few years back, when previously it was available on Boeing 747 flights to Johannesburg as well, and on 747 flights to Hong Kong, etc.
Chris, I wonder if the main value to Qantas is to reward the platinums and above for their loyalty? There must be a value in this for them also? I take a paid F fare every year to maintain my P status with Qantas but rarely see more than 2 seats booked until t-72. I do also find that entirely filling the cabin with upgrades devalues the F product. Many other carriers do not do this unless they need op-ups ( Air France, Emirates etc)
patrickk
patrickk
Qantas
Member since 19 Apr 2012
Total posts 731
First class is big plus for the very big corporate accounts whose executives
Nichokiu
Nichokiu
Member since 13 Apr 2018
Total posts 25
You have to remember there’s a LOT of people with SO much money they have no way in spending it all. My boss regularly takes his whole family of 5 on first class trips to the US. Fully paid for in cash. His youngest child is 4. Imagine splurging close to $20k for your 4 year old in first class...
Traveller14
Traveller14
Member since 17 Sep 2015
Total posts 73
I'm not anti private enterprise, but that's obscene. Far from the humility those such as Mother Teresa practised.