Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 28 Sep 2011
Total posts 302
You cannot possibly be restrained or arrested (lawfully anyway) for any reason, including non-compliance with a request from the captain, if what you are doing on a plane is a) legal (refer eg Civil Aviation rules as well as general law) and b) does not endanger the safety of the aircraft and/or those on board. That said, kicking the seat repeatedly and deliberately is not legal - it's disorderly conduct under general law. The test of whether a request is "reasonable" is one directed to social courtesy in the circumstances. The test of whether the "request" is a "lawful direction" governs whether compliance is mandated. It's often best to swallow hard forget your rights and avoid trouble, but in a democracy nobody is legally (as opposed to socially) responsible for refusing to defer to a demand that is not within the proper authority of the person making it.
Member since 15 Apr 2011
Total posts 216
But it IS illegal to continue to bash those cymbals after the crew has asked you to stop doing so.
If the crew asks/tells you to do something that you have an issue with then you comply and take it up with the airline later.
This guy should have listened to the crew when he was told he couldn't proceed through the curtain instead of arguing and acting in a provocative manner (ie recording the conversation/taking photos). The Air Marshals were well within their rights IMO, given that he was disobeying a direct order by the crew.
He says he wanted to stretch his legs, so why couldn't he walk to the next galley back and cross over to the other aisle there?
>But it IS illegal to continue to bash those cymbals after the >crew has asked you to stop doing so.
Correct, because it's an offence of disturbing the peace and/or disorderly conduct
>If the crew asks/tells you to do something that you have an >issue with then you comply and take it up with the airline >later.
That's at your discretion, if the demand is not lawfully made. You don't have to obey ALL directions, only those made by lawful authority (refer eg Civil Aviation rules). Consider the absurdity of mandatory compliance with a crew direction to go and have a shave.
What a person should do, in your opinion or that of anyone else, is not a proxy for what they are entitled to do. Laws govern rights, not personal opinions.
Member since 03 Jan 2011
Total posts 86
Wow, who could have predicted that challenging an American flight attendant and recording them while air marshals were on board could have ended badly for that passenger.
I have some sympathy for both the theoretical arguments (please stay in your own cabin / sometimes it's more convenient to use the forward loo) but this particular example as published makes the passenger sound like an idiot.
That this occurred in a first world democracy is reprehensible. It's not about the passenger being an idiot - if that was an offence our gaols wouldn't be big enough. It's about the passenger's rights existing only in "theory" - which is what happens when we allow law enforcers to become law breakers, when executive action erases individual freedoms. Don't get me wrong: in paying for J class I expect to have that cabin available only to J class pax. I don't condone excessive response such as occurred on this occasion because it's not a criminal matter, it's contractual.
Member since 21 Apr 2012
Total posts 2,058
Will this feature on an episode of South Park?
That's the more pertinent question ;)
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
Member since 24 Aug 2011
Total posts 384
Here's Bill doing his thing with the FA - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JMYK8t7rYGE
Member since 20 Nov 2011
Total posts 107
Thanks to ecg and wilsoni all I got out of this discussion was an argument about who has the right to bash cymbals in a house/plane...lol. Perhaps AusBT would care to do a report on what happens when you march about an A380 bashing Cymbals :)
I'll get right on that one, Dr T ;)
Member since 31 Jan 2013
Total posts 5
What a thread! I was once travelling Economy, and the flight purser on the flight was very rude. To start it off, upon boarding, she was walking up and down the business class cabin. Whenever she saw an econnomy class passenger walk by she would roll her eyes.
Later on, she took her seat for take off, and I had a perfect view of what she was going as I had an aisle seat. When the plane took off, the seatbelt sign hadn't even been turned off and we were still in the early stages of the climb and she got up from her seat, walked at a fast pace and quickly closed the curtains between economy and business. She looked down the aisle and rolled her eyes. She really seemed to be angry and aggitated. Maybe it was because it was an overnight flight that left at 2am and whe was tired, but it was not acceptable for her to behave like that. I did not mention that she was the only flight attendant up during that time.
Around the middle of this long flight, I decided to take a walk. I went through the curtains and went to the toilet in the front of the cabin. To my surprise, there she was, like a guard at the curtains, near the galley and toilet. She said to me in a very rude tone and way that I had to leave immediantly because I was not permitted to be there. I left without saying anything.
Towards the end of the flight, about 1.5 - 2 hours till landing, it was early morning, the lights were switched off, and most passengers were sleeping. Bing, bong, she made an announcment. I knew it was her, due to her distinct accent. She announced that we will 'shortly' be arriving and that the entertainment system will be switched off in ALL CABINS.What? Shortly be arriving, we still had about 2 hours of the flight left! After her announcment, she switched the lights on in the economy class cabin to the limit...they were very bright. Most passengers woke up due to this. The crew also collected headsets and blankets, so we were all left sitting there for about 1.5 hours doing, bored, cold and not being able to have a nap becuase the lights were brightly on. Soon after, she decided to open the curtain! From there, I could see that business class passengers were still sleeping, there lights were still switched off and there entertainment system was switched on.
Upon landing, I disembarked the aircraft and soon saw her at the door. She looked at me, rolled her eyes and rudely said good bye. I smiled and left the aircraft.
I am a frequent traveller, business person, and usually travel first and business most of the time but I have also travelled on economy several times. I had never experienced such rudeness and service on any other airline before including in economy. The return trip with this airline was a pleasant one. service was good and didnt experience anything like I did on the previous flight.
I could not believe this flight attendant! She was the purser on the flight and she was extremely rude to the Economy Class passengers. What does she have against us? She should be making sure that all cabins are running smoothly, not just the premium classes. I couldn't believe that she was behaving like that to Economy. I felt like an animal in that plane thanks to her, no attention what so ever. She acted like Economy was like a cargo hold, not a cabin full of people just like her. She thinks that because she is the purser she has all the power over everything. I won't be travelling with this airline again thanks to this experience.
Dare I ask which airline? They collected the blankets??? I dont think I have ever experienced that?!?
Oh, I did forget to mention the airline. It was with Etihad Airways. I had never experienced this sort of appauling service on another Etihad airways flight. They always let us use the blankets till the end of the flight and didnt collect them. I believe it was her who told all the crew to do this, as she was the head of crew. As I said, she was all against economy, and left the business class people sleeping until about 30 minutes before landing!
I hope you noted her details and sent in a complaint. If you don't mind being a bit passive aggressive then I would recommend that you ask for a feedback form if it happens again. The purser/CSM is generally obligated to provide one to anybody who asks, and will get the message loud and clear. I'd still write to them after though, in case the form gets 'lost'.
It's also often very telling to strike up a coversation with one of the more junior crew down at the back of the plane. If you dislike the purser then chances are that they loath them, and you'll get all sorts of information/gossip that can be useful when complaining.
And it sounds a bit like BA to me. I've learnt to get myself as far away from the economy cabin as I can on any BA flight because the lights always seem to be turned on so early. I've never had the blankets collected that far out though...
I did send a complaint to the airline which was Etihad, and only recieved an email saying that they were sincerely sorry, and that the feedback would be passed on. Nothing! Next time I will ask for a feedback form!
Member since 02 Jan 2013
Total posts 54
This person had no right to record or film anyone that works for the airline.You will find that most probably in the terms and conditions somewhere when you purchase a ticket or in the full terms and conditions of carriage booklet that all airlines have, you must have the airlines authority to do that.When i'm in business class are you are busting to use the toilet in y class and they are all occupied.Bad luck.Piss your pants!
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