They may or may not be safe, but it's the "optics" that count. Currently they are not seen to be safe. A lot of travellers are nervous, and the last thing anyone wants is another crash. We won't know one way or another at least until the flight data recorder and flight deck voice recorder have been analyzed, until we know if comparisons with Lion Air exist and maybe even until the flight computer software update is considered airworthy.
Aviation incidents for commercial jets are very rare in this modern epoch.
So the fact that 2 brand new aircraft would crash in identical circumstances just months apart would indicate that no, absolutely not, the 737 MAX is not safe.
What is scary also is also the ratio of hull losses to 737 MAX in existence - 2/380 (approx) in the aviation industry this figure is huge compared to other aircraft types.
Whilst we don't know yet, there likely is something wrong with the 737 MAX. It may be the aircraft, the pilots training for the aircraft or a combinaton of both. If Boeing designed this to be easy for pilots to get use to and commit minimal training to operate this aircraft, it could very well be a lack of pilot training. It could also be a engineering issue. TLDR: Something is wrong, we just don't know if its human error or the aircraft itself. Hoping for the former since that could be fixed more easily.
A quick glance at the safety records of Lion group and Ethiopian will very quickly inform you on who (not what) is to blame.
Lion Air probably, but Ethiopian has a very good safety record (one of the reasons they've been able to grow is because they pay attention to safety in a region that's not well known for doing so). Ethiopian's pilots were trained in using MCAS on the 737 Max after the Lion Air incident.
The two incidents could be complete coincidental or could suggest an issue with the plane or training materials provided.
That said I wouldn't hesitate to fly one. I'm booked on an Ethiopian 737 Max from Comoros later this year, let's see if it stays that way :p
737 MAX: 370 aircraft in service; 2 crashes in 5 months, with loss of all aboard, in similar circumstance.
737 NG: ~5,000 aircraft in service: hasn't had a crash resulting in loss of all aboard since 2016, and that was in poor weather.
The numbers kind of speak for themselves to say this is absolutely not normal, especially for brand new aircraft.
Lets not pretend that design flaws aren't possible - the DC10 with its bad cargo door that caused two fatal crashes, the earlier 737's rudder issues that saw two fatal crashes, to the recent 787 battery grounding and Rolls Royce engine issues on the A380 and 787.
We don't know until we know. The rest could all be perfect - crashes could have been due to pilot error. Or the engine/wing design with computer control solution could be the problem. Or aliens don't like the wingtips and exacted revenge. We don't know. However based on existing data the probability of another Max hull loss has gone through the roof. Thus the groundings. Wait and see, plenty of other planes in the air.
Unfortunately this is what happens when you’re first cab off the rank. Ethiopian first with 787-8 then lithium battery fire at LHR and now 737max8. Norwegian/AIR NZ /Virgin Atlantic first with 787-9 Rolls Royce engine blades cracking so wet leasing aircraft till fixed and of course our own Flying Kangaroo QF32 with again Rolls Royce workmanship in question with pipe not fitted accurately. If it wasn’t for our brilliant QF32 crew Qantas would have made history for all the wrong reasons.
Interesting that the Lion Air incident wasn’t enough to bring out the full story about why MCAS is there. Now we know that Boeing are correcting a shortcoming in the behaviour of the aircraft with automation. They will need to do a lot more to show that the aircraft is safe to operate. I hope that the FAA and others actually fully scrutinise the safety integrity of the design before the bans are released.
Packetman21
Packetman21
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 28 Jul 2016
Total posts 68
Hey everyone,
Would you consider the 737 MAX to be safe given the recent events of Ethiopian Airlines and Lion Air?
I understand that almost if not all the 737 MAXs are grounded at the moment.
I personally think that it's a little premature to determine, but lots of countries have banned them meaning they must know something wrong...
I will definetly avoid it in the future however.
PS: I think it's a given but just be respectful of families who lost their loved ones and ensure that we don't offend them :)
tommygun
tommygun
Delta Air Lines - SkyMiles
Member since 16 Oct 2017
Total posts 291
They may or may not be safe, but it's the "optics" that count. Currently they are not seen to be safe. A lot of travellers are nervous, and the last thing anyone wants is another crash. We won't know one way or another at least until the flight data recorder and flight deck voice recorder have been analyzed, until we know if comparisons with Lion Air exist and maybe even until the flight computer software update is considered airworthy.
IntegralMan
IntegralMan
Member since 01 Sep 2018
Total posts 8
Aviation incidents for commercial jets are very rare in this modern epoch.
hmendes
hmendes
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 28 Feb 2017
Total posts 4
What is scary also is also the ratio of hull losses to 737 MAX in existence - 2/380 (approx) in the aviation industry this figure is huge compared to other aircraft types.
djtech
djtech
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 02 Sep 2018
Total posts 375
Whilst we don't know yet, there likely is something wrong with the 737 MAX. It may be the aircraft, the pilots training for the aircraft or a combinaton of both. If Boeing designed this to be easy for pilots to get use to and commit minimal training to operate this aircraft, it could very well be a lack of pilot training. It could also be a engineering issue. TLDR: Something is wrong, we just don't know if its human error or the aircraft itself. Hoping for the former since that could be fixed more easily.
whoppersandwich
whoppersandwich
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 11 Dec 2017
Total posts 125
A quick glance at the safety records of Lion group and Ethiopian will very quickly inform you on who (not what) is to blame.
Nichokiu
Nichokiu
Member since 13 Apr 2018
Total posts 26
Safe or not, not stepping into one to find out!
Ricardo
Ricardo
SQ
Member since 23 Oct 2015
Total posts 49
Yes, they made the mistake of buying Boeing.
JonnoPER
JonnoPER
Member since 22 Feb 2018
Total posts 12
I wouldn’t fly on one until there is clarity.
Dredgy
Dredgy
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 02 Apr 2017
Total posts 182
Lion Air probably, but Ethiopian has a very good safety record (one of the reasons they've been able to grow is because they pay attention to safety in a region that's not well known for doing so). Ethiopian's pilots were trained in using MCAS on the 737 Max after the Lion Air incident.
LatteLaptopLoon
LatteLaptopLoon
Member since 25 Oct 2017
Total posts 18
Virgin Australia going to delay the introduction, hopefully 😥😥
andyf
andyf
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
Member since 07 Dec 2014
Total posts 55
737 MAX: 370 aircraft in service; 2 crashes in 5 months, with loss of all aboard, in similar circumstance.
johnaboxall
johnaboxall
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
Member since 24 Aug 2011
Total posts 384
We don't know until we know. The rest could all be perfect - crashes could have been due to pilot error. Or the engine/wing design with computer control solution could be the problem. Or aliens don't like the wingtips and exacted revenge. We don't know. However based on existing data the probability of another Max hull loss has gone through the roof. Thus the groundings. Wait and see, plenty of other planes in the air.
14AspenDrive
14AspenDrive
Member since 19 Jan 2018
Total posts 5
Unfortunately this is what happens when you’re first cab off the rank. Ethiopian first with 787-8 then lithium battery fire at LHR and now 737max8. Norwegian/AIR NZ /Virgin Atlantic first with 787-9 Rolls Royce engine blades cracking so wet leasing aircraft till fixed and of course our own Flying Kangaroo QF32 with again Rolls Royce workmanship in question with pipe not fitted accurately. If it wasn’t for our brilliant QF32 crew Qantas would have made history for all the wrong reasons.
GregXL
GregXL
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 26 May 2014
Total posts 320
Interesting that the Lion Air incident wasn’t enough to bring out the full story about why MCAS is there. Now we know that Boeing are correcting a shortcoming in the behaviour of the aircraft with automation. They will need to do a lot more to show that the aircraft is safe to operate. I hope that the FAA and others actually fully scrutinise the safety integrity of the design before the bans are released.