Qantas to upgrade A330 economy seats
The twin-aisle workhorses are in line for a refresh which will improve things down the back of the (Air)bus.
By David Flynn, January 16 2024
Qantas will replace some of its oldest economy class seats with a ‘next generation’ design, and the upgrade could begin as soon as the second half of this year.
The move comes as the airline ramps up the rollout of factory-fresh domestic and international jets across the next few years to renew its fleet.
That sweep will include two dozen Airbus A350 and Boeing 787 jets to replace the ageing twin-aisle Airbus A330s currently seen on key domestic and international routes – the later spaning as far as India, Seoul and even from Brisbane to Los Angeles.
But while the first Qantas A330 will be put out to pasture in 2027, the arrival of its A350 and 787 replacements will take place “over a decade or more,” the airline says – meaning that some red-tailed A330s will still be carrying passengers well into the 2030’s.
With that in mind, Qantas has committed to revamping some A330s – and new economy seats are on the cards.
“Aircraft scheduled to leave the Qantas fleet towards the end of the replacement program will undergo a cabin refurbishment from FY25, including next-generation seats in the economy cabin,” the airline has said.
There’s no indication that the A330’s business class will be replaced, and there’s arguably no need.
These spacious Business Suites, an evolved version of which appears on the Boeing 787 and upgraded Airbus A380s, remain comfortable in their own right and competitive on those routes which the Qantas A330 flies (particularly Australia’s transcontinental east-west routes, since Virgin Australia axed its own A330 jets).
So what can travellers expect from Qantas’ A330 make-over?
Is Qantas' A350 economy seat, shown here, headed for the A330s?
A new economy seat is of course on the cards, and we’d be surprised if this isn’t based on the same economy seat of the A350 Project Sunrise jets, which will begin non-stop flights from Sydney and Melbourne to London and New York at the end of 2025.
That seat, supplied by Recaro and styled by Qantas’ designer of choice David Caon, sports sculpted side-bolsters, a six-way adjustable headrest and additional space from your knee to the seat in front.
And unlike the economy seats of some Qantas A330-200s – the ones intended for domestic routes but also seen on some flights to Asia – the A350 economy seats have 13.3” 4K seatback video screens with Bluetooth audio streaming and USB power outlets, plus a fold-down device holder ideal for tablets and smartphones.
Qantas' A350 economy seat comes with all the mod cons.
Qantas has not yet shared which specific A330s are going under the knife, although it’s likely to be the relatively youngest members of the fleet which have the most flying years ahead of them.
Meanwhile, Qantas CEO Vanessa Hudson has previously told Executive Traveller the upgrade program “will start with replacing the (first) A330 in 2027” on a Boeing 787.
Executive Traveller understands the A350s and 787s will be fitted with the same seats as their red-tailed siblings – which for the A350s means the private business class suites and premium economy recliners of the long-legged Project Sunrise A350s jets, but without first class or the ‘wellbeing zone’.
A largely identical configuration will add consistency on international flights while also providing the flexibility for some of these A330 replacements – particular the Boeing 787 – to be swung onto long-range routes as needed.
In the case of the Boeing 787, which we expect will take over most domestic A330 routes, this could also result in premium economy becoming a fixture on not only Qantas flights to Asia but potentially even domestic routes, where it could be offered as a cost-extra ‘economy plus’ product or simply an upgrade for top-tier frequent flyers.
Etihad - Etihad Guest
13 Jun 2019
Total posts 12
Replacing the seats on these tired, old, dirty 20+ year old aircraft, is like putting new pyjamas on a patient and saying they are cured.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
09 Feb 2015
Total posts 382
It’s the Qantas way. We’ve come to the realisation this is the new norm.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
28 Aug 2014
Total posts 214
What hyperbolic nonsense, Qantas satisfactorily ran 744's for upwards of 25yrs, the A333's (avg age 19yrs) are functioning adequately and will suffice with a seat replacement while the airline awaits delivery a gargantuan order of new equipment from Airbus. Some of you need to go outside and touch some grass.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
30 May 2013
Total posts 372
It really is too little too late. It's laughable that Qantas has got itself into the situation where it's using domestic configured A330s to Asian cities which have no seat back entertainment screens. An iPad in the seat pocket of a tired old economy seat is embarrassing when compared to what the competition offers.
30 Apr 2013
Total posts 13
That is if the iPad hasn’t been stolen
03 May 2021
Total posts 43
Half of Qantas’ a330-200 don’t even have setback screens in economy and that might’ve been fine when they were just used domestically. But now they’re being flown between the east coast and Singapore, Jakarta and Manila. Which is a very long flight to not have IFE screens. Hopefully they update these.
24 Aug 2011
Total posts 1210
I would have thought the planning would be, as the new 789s arrive and the oldest (Cityflyer A332s and first batch of A333s) leave, the updated newer remaining A330s would move onto domestic/trans-Tasman/Bali services whilst the 787s would take over the remaining international routes previously handled by the A330s (SIN/HND/DEL etc).
At that point, medium to long-haul international would have a fairly consistent 3 class product everywhere (except for the F cabins on the A380s and PS A350s). Domestic would remain principally a 2 class offering.
08 Feb 2018
Total posts 161
That would make sense though!
02 Dec 2016
Total posts 92
Short-range overseas hops?
BNE-LAX =
MEL- DEL = 12hrs 40mins
SYD - MUM = 14 hrs 40 mins
BNE - LAX = 13hrs 25mins
Hardly short range. And even the shorter hops to SIN, HND, MNL are circa - 7 - 9 hrs. Again, hardly short.
22 Mar 2023
Total posts 4
One of my staff flew Melbourne/Singapore on Sunday. The plane was a domestic configured A330 with no seat back IFE. The plane was old, it had not been cleaned properly and to top it off, broke down before push back causing a 6 hour delay. Qantas would not let the pax off the aircraft for 3 hours, they did their old trick of drip feeding causal info and ETD, and finally let them off only to spend another 3 hours in the terminal before the plane could depart. Qantas was typically evasive with the nature of the technical issue and how long it was going to take to repair. No back up aircraft, because they have already retired 2 A330s for freighter conversion and have wet chartered 2 Finnair A330s to fill aircraft shortages. They still have 2 A380s to return from storage, and must be rueing the day Joyce decided to scrap two A380s and not order any new aircraft in order to inflate the balance sheet and the resulting senior executive bonus scheme.
Jetstar Airways - Qantas Frequent Flyer
24 Aug 2018
Total posts 107
For some people this proposed economy seat upgrade is immaterial as grumpy old buggers are unlikely to fly economy anywhere, especially internationally.
09 Dec 2023
Total posts 12
Qantas will upgrade the eight 27 Business Seats International A330 the oldest VH EBM was acquired in 2009. The newest VH EBV in 2012. These will be used internationally as the A321 will take over domestic longer flights.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
24 Aug 2023
Total posts 4
Look let's be honest any seat upgrade is good on an older aircraft - Delta has proven that with a new interior and IFE even old planes can give a good customer experience. The reality is the only widebodies that should be flying domestically will be tag services to international flights out of Perth - everything else will likely move across to the A321 which will give Qantas a far superior economic performance.
I'd be seriously peeved flying international out of Australia in economy and no seatback IFE, so I hope these aircraft and routes are prioritised.
09 Dec 2023
Total posts 12
Qantas A321neos with business seats that convert to lie flat beds will mean that the wide body jets will no longer be scheduled on flights to and from Perth. AJ stated that there were difficulties in turning A330s around.
Furthermore, the A330s only had 28 business seats and no premium economy. B787-9s have 42 business seats and 28 premium economy. The A350-1000ULRs will have 52 business seats and 40 premium economy.
I estimate that the B787-10s will have 40 business seats with a slightly shorten bed, along with two extra toilets, all located in the front cabin. I estimate that the normal A350-1000s will have 44 business seats with a slightly shorten bed, along with an extra toilet, all located in the front cabin. Both will have premium economy.
All the new wide body jets will have too many premium seats to be operated economically to Perth.
24 Nov 2020
Total posts 8
As has been reported here previously the A321’s will have recliners in J class, the first 20 or so anyway.
Air Canada - Aeroplan
28 Feb 2015
Total posts 111
Those new Y seats look very uncomfortable, because they have a flat back - no lumbar support whatsoever. Dreadful.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
21 Jul 2014
Total posts 32
This is a very good point, I hadn't realized until now that the Project Sunrise seats seem to have no lumbar support. Can we assume this? 17 hours with no lumbar support - how much must you hate your customers? Or is there but well hidden?
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
20 Oct 2015
Total posts 2
A decade to get all the new planes in service? They'll only be half way through rolling them all out and then they'll be out of date already!
It is a great aircraft for domestic and Trans-Tasman trips, but I don't enjoy it so much on the long haul flights as there isn't really anywhere to stretch out without getting the side glances from staff because you're 'in the way'. The A380 is so much better for this purpose with more areas for this, as will the new A350s when they come into service.
Thai Airways International - Royal Orchid Plus
15 Jan 2013
Total posts 464
I will admit for say Bali services if you are lucky enough to score one It's decent.I did the flights close to 25 years ago on a 767-300 and a factory fresh 747-400 and those didn't even have a audio video on demand or whatever,it was basically whatever was playing on the audio system and then whatever movies or TV series that existed.what I would have done for what we have now in those days.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
18 May 2017
Total posts 30
Slim-line seats... I prefer to call them ironing board seats. Hardly any padding. Dreadful, especially on long-haul. Not an enjoyable experience at all.
09 Dec 2023
Total posts 12
Thompson Vantage Solo lie flat Business seats arranged in a herringbone fashion have a 21 inches wide seat contained within 33 inches seat pitch. I estimate that 10 rows of these Solo business seats plus 30 rows of economy seats at 29 inches seat pitch, will about one and half rows too much to fit into a A321 configured with doors 1 and 4 and two over wing exits.
However, the Solo seat is a 2017 design when the maximum angle to the centre line was 45 degrees. In 2019, Boeing applied to the FAA for seats at 49 degrees to the centre line. This was granted in 2021. United Airlines has applied for a patent for seats at 49 degrees and a 28 inches seat pitch. These seats appeared to have no storage space.
However, Thompson and other seats manufactures (and Airbus) would be aware to this change in seat limitations and would be adjusting their designs to take advantage of the new limitations. I suspect a Thompson Vantage Solo seat (or a similar seat from other manufactures) at 49 degrees within a 30 inches seat pitch would be in 20 -21 inches wide range. That is 10 rows would almost fit into previous space occupied by 9 rows.
At the rear of the plane, Qantas could fit the narrow toilets that are fitted to B737 to gain space. Qantas is not going spend millions extra for each ULR version of the A321, to install inferior non-lie flat business seats. As it is feasible to fit business seats that convert to lie flat beds, Qantas will install them.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
24 Jan 2018
Total posts 710
Right. You know this how ??
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
21 Jul 2018
Total posts 27
I had the unfortunate experience to fly an A330 BNE-LAX in June 2022. This aircraft, designed for short haul European hops and inadequately fitted for long haul use of any description was crewed by NZ staff as Australian crew sensibly refused to travel in an aircraft that had NO crew rest area, with a few rows of seats curtained off instead. From about 2 hours after takeoff the toilets had a constant waiting line because the aircraft is not fitted with adequate facilities to cope with the full loading. This is the flight that convinced me to not renew my 15-year Qantas Club membership and choose alternate flights forever. Since then I have been around the globe twice with Star Alliance and enjoyed every minute of travel. I heartily recommend that Qantass be AVOIDED wherever possible.
09 Dec 2023
Total posts 12
Boeing Tragic, I try to look at matters positively and try to find how it can be achieved rather than go with the mass negative outlook, it cannot be achieved.
200 seats have been selected for a purpose. Two doors at 65 passengers each and two over wing exits at 35 passengers each, total 200 passengers. This allows doors 3 to be plugged (like on B737 MAX 9s) and achieves more than a row of space.
If Qantas was to keep the present 30 inches seat pitch in economy, it would have commented that economy will be at the same pitch. However, Qantas commented “no reduction in space between the seats” which suggest a change and probably translates to an economy seat pitch of 29 inches with an inch thinner seat back. (Likewise, Virgin’s comment “between six and 12 additional economy seats” means 29 inches seat pitch to achieve twelve more seats.)
Qantas installed new narrow toilets on their B737s to gain space towards another seat row.
It was then a search to find lie flat business class seats for A321 with smallest seat pitch. I expect when Qantas requested submissions from Boeing and Airbus on narrow body aircraft, they would been aware of Boeing’s submission to FAA to increase the maximum angle of the seats to the centreline to 49 degrees. Qantas will keep everyone guessing until the A321 Neo ULRs arrive later this year.
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