Qantas confirms non-stop Project Sunrise flights to London, New York

The 18-20 hour flights will take wing from late 2025, on board Airbus A350 jets featuring all-new seats and suites.

By David Flynn, May 2 2022
Qantas confirms non-stop Project Sunrise flights to London, New York
Executive Traveller exclusive

Non-stop Qantas flights from Sydney and Melbourne to London and New York will take off late 2025 after the Flying Kangaroo this morning confirmed its ambitious 'Project Sunrise' plans.

Speaking at a packed media event at the Sydney Airport’s Hangar 96, Qantas CEO Alan Joyce confirmed an initial order for 12 Airbus A350-1000 ultra-long range aircraft, which will enable the 18-20 hour direct flights from Australia's east coast.

"The A350 and Project Sunrise will make any city just one flight away from Australia," Joyce said. "It’s the last frontier and the final fix for the tyranny of distance."

Joyce promised the A350 would make those marathon flights more bearable than potential passengers might expect, with a cabin "specially designed for maximum comfort in all classes for long-haul flying."

This will start with fully-private A350 first class suites with a separate armchair and bed: there will be six First suites in a layout of two 1-1-1 rows.

Qantas' new A350s will feature an impressive new first suite design.
Qantas' new A350s will feature an impressive new first suite design.

Each Project Sunrise A350 will also feature what Qantas refers to as 'Wellness Zones' - dedicated spaces for passengers in all cabin classes to stand and stretch, which will undoubtedly become popular areas during these ultra-long journeys.

Qantas says dedicated stretching spaces will make the nearly day-long flights more bearable.
Qantas says dedicated stretching spaces will make the nearly day-long flights more bearable.

These spaces will feature video screens with recommended exercises to help increase blood flow and improve overall passenger wellbeing, along with a self-serve snack bar.

Our guide to Qantas Project Sunrise, below, dives more into what will be the world’s longest commercial flights.

When is the Qantas Project Sunrise A350 launch date?

The first flights under the Project Sunrise banner are expected to take wing towards the end of 2025. Launch routes will be Sydney to London and Sydney to New York, with other city-pairs to follow.

This is much later than Qantas’ original plans to begin Project Sunrise flights in early-mid 2023 – plans which were in place at the start of 2020, until Covid-19 brought the aviation industry to a standstill.

In fact, Qantas was set to finalise its A350 order in February 2020, just weeks before the pandemic struck.

“We were pretty close… within a couple of weeks of placing orders for the aircraft,” Joyce previously told Executive Traveller.

Instead, Qantas put the brakes on Project Sunrise while it dealt with more immediate matters of sheer survival.

And with those worst times behind it, Qantas expects to see demand return to 2019 levels by 2024 – which puts Project Sunrise back in the picture.

Joyce remains “very optimistic” on the appeal of these non-stop flights – indeed, Project Sunrise is a shining ray of hope on the travel horizon.

Qantas CEO Alan Joyce is ready to launch what will be the world's longest commercial flights.
Qantas CEO Alan Joyce is ready to launch what will be the world's longest commercial flights.

“Our latest customer research shows that demand for direct long-haul flights is even stronger than it was pre-Covid, so our focus on delivering non-stop services from Sydney and Melbourne to New York and London remains,” Joyce noted in February 2022.

"People in the post-Covid world will want to fly direct" rather than make stopovers, he believes, “which I think makes the Project Sunrise business case even better than it was pre-Covid.”

“We think this is one of the big things that will change in the next decade, and allow us to have a suitable competitive advantage that nobody else is probably going to introduce.”

The Qantas Airbus A350 order

Qantas' initial order is for twelve Airbus A350s, although more may follow.

At a previously-published list price of US$366.5 million per A350, even one dozen A350s for Project Sunrise represents a massive outlay of US$4.4 billion, although airlines typically receive a discount of up to 50% off the sticker for bulk fleet orders.

(Boeing pitched its next-generation 777X to Qantas for for Project Sunrise routes, but Qantas voted against it – which is just as well, considering the 777X’s development has suffered ongoing delays and Boeing now says the first 777-9 won’t be delivered until sometime in 2025.)

A fleet of ultra-long range Airbus A350-1000 jets will power Project Sunrise' marathon globe-spanning flights.
A fleet of ultra-long range Airbus A350-1000 jets will power Project Sunrise' marathon globe-spanning flights.

The A350 is “a fantastic aircraft,” Joyce enthuses, “and the deal on the table with Airbus gives us the best possible combination of commercial terms, fuel efficiency, operating cost and customer experience.”

“This is the right choice for the Sunrise missions and it also has the right economics to do other long haul routes if we want it to,” he added.

An Airbus A350 marketing executive has echoed this thought to Executive Traveller, saying “we consider the airplane can operate economically and flexibly on the entire long-haul wide-body network of Qantas.”

“So I think that would be a tactical decision to go for an airplane that can serve in an efficient manner not only on those ultra-long range routes but anywhere else in the network.”

Those comments capped speculation that Qantas will boost its A350 orders to effectively replace the double-decker Airbus A380 when those superjumbos are retired around the end of this decade.

Qantas' Project Sunrise jets would also replace the current flagship Airbus A380s.
Qantas' Project Sunrise jets would also replace the current flagship Airbus A380s.

Indeed, Joyce has previously told Executive Traveller the jets ordered for Project Sunrise routes could also need to take on relatively shorter and more conventional routes to Los Angeles and Asia.

“What we have to have is an aircraft that not only can fly Sydney-London and Sydney-New York, and Melbourne-London and Melbourne-New York, but also can be rotated to do Sydney-Hong Kong and Sydney-LA.”

"Over time hopefully we will have enough of the A350 aircraft to fly direct and overfly a lot of the hubs, and that will take the burden off having the big (A380) aircraft needed for those big destinations.”

This is one reason why Qantas chose to fit out the A350s in a four-cabin configuration, because "all of the seats have to be usable for those routes", Joyce explained – in contrast with Singapore Airlines' decision to kit out its own long-range Airbus A350 jets with only business class and premium economy.

For Project Sunrise, Qantas has specifically selected the A350-1000 model – the larger cousin of the more common A350-900.

In fact, it’s a special version called the A350-1000ULR, where ULR stands for ‘Ultra Long Range’ (Singapore Airlines relies on an A350-900ULR for its own non-stop flights such as Singapore to New York).

Qantas worked with Airbus to develop the Project Sunrise A350-1000ULR, which will be fitted with an extra fuel tank, along with other engineering modifications and design and technical refinements needed to fly non-stop for up to 21 hours, which Qantas considers will be more than the longest Project Sunrise flight and allows some leeway for extra flying time caused by strong headwinds and unexpected delays in landing.

Qantas Project Sunrise A350 routes

Thanks to this extra fuel tank and additional modifications to boost their efficiency and range, the Qantas Project Sunrise A350s will be able to tackle the world’s longest routes.

The Qantas Project Sunrise A350 launch routes will be from Sydney, specifically Sydney-London and Sydney-New York. Further destinations for the new aircraft could include Paris, Frankfurt, Chicago and Rio de Janeiro.

Sydney’s status as the prestigious launchpad for Project Sunrise was one condition of a $50 million offer made by the NSW state government in April 2021 to keep Qantas based in Sydney, rather than see it decamp to Melbourne or Brisbane.

In its statement on the decision to retain its Sydney HQ, Qantas confirmed that “Sydney will be the launch city for the first Project Sunrise flights (non-stop to cities including New York and London) once international travel recovers and this investment goes ahead.”

Qantas' initial set of proposed Project Sunrise routes
Qantas' initial set of proposed Project Sunrise routes

Those Sydney flights will be followed by Melbourne-London and Melbourne-New York, while other Qantas Project Sunrise A350 destinations will include Paris and potentially Frankfurt, although admittedly that was in the rosier pre-pandemic days.

Speaking with Executive Traveller in late 2019 about the airline’s broader European strategy, Joyce has previously said one plank of the playbook was "to fly direct, where those direct flights are with Sunrise, and we may only have three destinations we'll ever do that with: London, Paris and Frankfurt.”

“We think other (European destinations) are going to be too small to be able to justify it."

(Joyce has in the past also alluded to Paris and Frankfurt as potential Boeing 787-9 routes from Perth, but non-stop Project Sunrise flights from Sydney and Melbourne would trump the WA capital.)

Non-stop from Sydney or Melbourne to Paris? Yes please!
Non-stop from Sydney or Melbourne to Paris? Yes please!

Cape Town and Rio de Janeiro were also pencilled in as nominal Project Sunrise A350 routes when the plans were first proposed.

Qantas also nominated Brisbane as a likely launching pad for its A350 flights, although the Queensland capital has traditionally not fared as well as Sydney or Melbourne when it comes to ‘flagship’ routes.

There have been suggestions that Perth-London might be upgraded from a Boeing 787 Dreamliner to an Airbus A350, based on the established success of this one-hop Kangaroo Route, with Alan Joyce suggesting “we can do Project Sunrise in addition, we wouldn’t take Perth-London out.”

Likewise, Qantas' non-stop Project Sunrise A350 flights to London won't replace the long-standing stopover flights from Sydney to London via Singapore, which for years have featured the A380 superjumbo.

Those flights will remain on the Qantas schedule for travellers who prefer to break their journey and stretch their legs, but they’ll be less expensive than the direct Project Sunrise A350 flights to London.

Qantas Project Sunrise flight numbers

Given that Project Sunrise flights will be on Qantas' flagship routes, we expect they’ll carry equally-significant flight numbers.

Our tip is that the non-stop Sydney-London service will inherit the prestigious QF1/QF2 badge, which has traditionally been assigned to the Sydney-Singapore-London flight.

Likewise, we'd expect the non-stop Sydney-New York flights to launch as QF3/QF4 (today those numbers belong to Qantas' Sydney-Honolulu route which in the 1960s used to continue to San Francisco, Qantas' primary US hub for several decades before it switched to LAX).

Qantas Airbus A350 seat map

The Qantas Airbus A350 seat map shows 238 seats across four travel classes – first, business, premium economy and economy – along with a dedicated Wellbeing Zone located between premium economy and economy.

The A350 sees all-new seat designs in each of those cabins, with Qantas having completed the A350's cabin configuration with the stated aim of "redefining" all four travel classes from tip to tail.

Qantas' new A350s will offer four seating classes.
Qantas' new A350s will offer four seating classes.

Significantly, the Project Sunrise A350 jets have just over 40% of their space assigned to premium cabins (first class, business class and premium economy), dominated by a 52-seat business class section.

(By comparison, the airline's current Boeing 787-9 configuration is almost 30% premium, based on the combined 70-seat tally of business class and premium economy out of 236 seats in total – a much higher ratio than three-class Dreamliners flown by other airlines.)

Qantas Project Sunrise A350 first class

As befits Qantas’ newest flagship on these marathon non-stop flights, the Project Sunrise A350 aircraft will be crowned by what Joyce has described to Executive Traveller as “super first class” suites, and shown in these concept illustrations.

The A350’s first class flyers will be cocooned in these fully-private suites with a separate armchair and bed, a personal wardobe and fronted by a massive 32" HD video screen.

First class on the A350 will be six seats in two rows.
First class on the A350 will be six seats in two rows.

Only six first suites will be available per flight, making up the first two rows in a 1-1-1 layout across the cabin, in line with a global trend towards reducing the number of first class suites – often driven by softer demand as business class continues to get better – while also allowing a larger physical footprint for each suite.

This video teases more of what's in store for Qantas' A350 first class flyers.

Qantas Project Sunrise A350 business class

The Qantas A350s will boast a sizeable business class cabin to suit the ‘premium-heavy’ nature of the Project Sunrise routes.

After all, if you’re setting out on The World's Longest Flight™ with 18-20 hours aloft, you'd want to be in some of the most spacious and comfortable seats on the plane.

The Project Sunrise A350s will debut an all-new business class seat which raises the bar above the well-regarded Business Suite of today's Qantas Boeing 787s, Airbus A330s and A380 superjumbos.

Qantas' Project Sunrise A350 business class will top the airline's current Business Suite design.
Qantas' Project Sunrise A350 business class will top the airline's current Business Suite design.

While Qantas has yet to share full details of the A350 Business Suites, indications are that each business class suite will be surrounded by a higher wall for privacy: it appears that Qantas has opted to forego sliding doors, with those being a privilege of first class alone.

This could prove a controversial decision, given that doors are a flourish already adopted by many airlines in leading-edge business class cabins.

It also appears Qantas has chosen a seat that is broadly similar in design to its current Business Suites, but is not the same seat per se.

The Qantas Project Sunrise A350s will split business class into two cabins: a main section of 28 seats, and a smaller secondary cabin of 24.

Executive Traveller will share more details of Project Sunrise business class as they come to hand.

Qantas Project Sunrise A350 premium economy and economy class

Of course, not everyone can fly in first class or business class – and mindful of the trail these bum-numbingly long Project Sunrise flights could represent, especially down the back of the (Air)bus, Qantas has spec'd out all-new designs for the premium economy and economy seats.

The airline promises these will be more comfortable and spacious than today's equivalents.

"That's all part of the proposition”, Joyce has told Executive Traveller, “(because) this aircraft is going to be designed for 19-20 hour flights (and) there’ll be more legroom.

While we don’t yet have images of these seats, we do know some basic specs:

  • the 40 premium economy seats of the Project Sunrise A350 jets will have 40” of pitch, compared to 38" on the Airbus A380 and Boeing 787, giving passengers ample room to stretch out their legs and even cross their knees
  • the 140 economy class seats also slightly boost legroom with a 33" pitch, compared to 31-32" on the Qantas Airbus A380s and Boeing 787s, and at 18” across would slightly wider as well, with Airbus A350's extra-wide cabin allowing travellers a little more room at the hips

Qantas Project Sunrise A350 Wellness Zone

In addition to more open space around the exit areas where passengers can stand and limber up a little, a dedicated ‘Wellness Zone’ will be stategically located between the premium economy and economy cabins.

Here is where Project Sunrise passengers from any cabin class can limber up to help battle non-stop flight fatigue, with the help of guided video exercises to get the blood flowing and alleviate the muscle aches which can set it after you’ve been sitting for too long.

What about those Qantas Project Sunrise ‘sleeping bunks’?

In the early days of Project Sunrise, Qantas floated the idea of turning part of the jet’s cargo hold – the space below the passenger deck – into railway-style bunk beds and exercise areas.

“One of the concepts that we have is maybe if we're not carrying freight you do something lower where cargo is on the aircraft, do you have an area where people can walk? Do you have berths like on a train?” he posed.

Qantas and Airbus both examined the idea of putting bunk beds into the A350's cargo hold.
Qantas and Airbus both examined the idea of putting bunk beds into the A350's cargo hold.

“Could some of the freight areas we may not use be used as an exercise area (or) berths for people to sleep in?” Joyce posed in March 2018, shortly after the launch of the airline's non-stop flights between Perth and London.

He readily admitted these were “out there’ ideas, but said “there's a lot of ‘out there’ thinking that’s going on" in helping Project Sunrise take shape.

Airbus got on board, creating mockups of bespoke ‘below decks’ passenger modules.

Designed to be interchangeable with a standard cargo container, the modules would let airlines convert part of an airplane’s downstairs cargo hold into passenger facilities to suit the needs of different routes or even different times of the year, such as peak travel seasons.

Another below-decks module proposed by Airbus was this lounge / meeting room space.
Another below-decks module proposed by Airbus was this lounge / meeting room space.

Airbus estimated that 32 bunk beds could fit under the main deck, with primarily appeal to passengers in premium economy and economy who would buy the beds as an ‘upgrade for sleeping”, although these areas couldn't be occupied during takeoff or landing.

Other possibilities for the downstairs spaces include a lounge or a conference room above the clouds, family rooms or a ‘medical care zone’.

However, in June 2019 Joyce said Qantas had ruled out the use of below-deck space for Project Sunrise.

“The package we looked at – putting things in baggage holds – didn’t work” for feasibility and overall economics.

Will the Qantas Project Sunrise A350s be equipped with WiFi?

The Project Sunrise Airbus A350 jets are intended to have WiFi – in fact, they’re likely to have broadband WiFi capable of streaming HD video.

Satellite technology with high-speed worldwide coverage has been slow to develop, but two options have emerged as contenders for Qantas’ international fleet:

  • the ViaSat-3 network, which technology provider ViaSat plans to have fully operational in the next few years (by the time Project Sunrise flights take off)
  • the Starlink constellation of ‘micro-satellites’, developed by tech billionaire Elon Musk’s SpaceX group, which is already in place with several airlines signed up as customers

How much will Qantas Project Sunrise A350 flights cost?

Qantas intends to price its non-stop Project Sunrise flights at a premium over conventional routes.

Joyce has predicted prices of “20 to 30 per cent” higher compared to fares on the same routes but involving a stopover, such as London via Singapore or New York via Los Angeles.

“When you do something unique that gives you a customer value proposition that’s quite special, you can charge a premium for it,” Joyce has reasoned.

It’s hard to imagine Qantas Project Sunrise fares could be as much as one-third higher – especially in economy, where travellers are typically price-sensitive – but there’s no doubt that people who want to fly direct and get to their destination sooner would be expected to pay more than the stopover set.

How much time will Qantas’ non-stop Project Sunrise A350 flights save?

The notion of darting non-stop from Sydney or Melbourne to London or New York implies a substantial time saving compared to the conventional stop-over in Singapore or Los Angeles.

After all, you’re immediately slashing those two hours you might spend on the ground, along with the necessary time for your flight to land and take off again.

Surely flying direct means getting where you’re going a lot sooner?

Not quite. Sooner, yes, but the most significant benefits of these Project Sunrise flights won’t be measured by a stopwatch.

Take as an example the Sydney-Singapore-London ‘Kangaroo Route’. This notches up almost 23 hours in the air – add the time spent on the ground in Singapore, and the start-to-finish journey stretches close to 25 hours.

Qantas’ initial pitch for Project Sunrise promised a saving of ‘up to four hours’ by skipping Singapore.

Nobody’s going to argue with winning back four hours, but it doesn’t seem all that much in the scheme of things – and many people (especially those not flying in first or business) would maintain that breaking their journey in the Singapore lounges is worth the longer trip.

But the real benefits of those direct flights are less about the time shaved off from start to finish, than the fact that all of that time is yours without interruption.

Non-stop flights let you weave your own timetable to eat, work, relax and sleep when you want.
Non-stop flights let you weave your own timetable to eat, work, relax and sleep when you want.

Project Sunrise flights, like Singapore Airlines' non-stop flights to New York, hand you 18-20 hours as a single contiguous block, to divvy up as you like, rather than have it broken into two segments with a stop-over in between.

Work, then dine, then sleep? Sleep, eat, then work and relax again? It's all about letting you set your own schedule – one where mandatory stop-overs don't get a look in.

This is especially useful if you're following a very specific anti-jetlag timetable for eating and sleeping.

“I’ve had business travellers tell me they’d rather stay on board and watch an extra episode of their favourite show before arriving at their final destination, rather than spending 90 minutes on the ground waiting for a connecting flight,” Joyce says.

But it's not just be about road warriors. “I’ve also had a few parents tell me they would rather not disturb their kids if they are settled in and avoid having to bundle them and all their carry-on luggage off and back on a flight during a stopover.”

And harking back to the Kangaroo Route as our example, there’s another upside on the return leg from London to Sydney or Melbourne. Regular travellers from London or Singapore can attest that this final part of the journey short-changes you on sleep.

With 7-8 hours from wheels-up at Changi to landing in Australia, the window for sleep is at best six hours – and that’s six hours in a noisy cabin, on a bed which is never anywhere near as restful and relaxing as the one at home.

A non-stop flight changes that for the better, and there’s every chance that with a longer sleep under your belt, you’ll arrive feeling not only fresher but with less post-flight fatigue and downtime.

That's something which every business traveller and holiday-maker will appreciate.

Qantas Project Sunrise research flights

In evaluating Project Sunrise, Qantas ran three three ‘research flights’ from New York and London to Sydney in late July 2019 to study jet-lag and design an optimum rest and work pattern for crew.

“They were an amazing experience,” Joyce notes, “testing how our frequent flyers would feel, looking at pilot fatigue issues.”

These three special flights were undertaken by Boeing 787-9 jets, which had to be limited to limited to 50 passengers and crew in order to conquer those endless kilometres.

Even in business class, 20 hours of non-stop flying takes its toll.
Even in business class, 20 hours of non-stop flying takes its toll.

So what was it like to travel non-stop from New York to Sydney on Qantas' Project Sunrise research flight? This Executive Traveller article filed after the flight touched down in Sydney reveals all.

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1445

This is excellent news. Something for my retirement when it finally arrives, and one stop to Reykjavik not to mention many other favourite destinations.

QF

11 Jul 2014

Total posts 801

Very much a game changer for Australia aviation as long as your not in economy, I remember the first flight I did from Frankfurt to Singapore in a 747 economy and the guy in front reclined his seat. I was a sardine in a Safcol tin can, the horror of the experience led myself to enjoy the baby cradle seats upfront. A walk around, a sleeper berth, fresh food would get myself over the longer flight. 

United Airlines - Mileage Plus

12 Sep 2011

Total posts 337

I'd rather stopover somewhere where I could shower and longue in a lounge and do a decent First like ANA or Lufthansa or Cathay who wants to sit on n aircraft for 19 hours ?Terrible!

Joe
Joe

03 May 2013

Total posts 654

Bring it on but the layout better be '20 hours proof'. Long time to be sitting on a plane in one stretch.

05 Dec 2013

Total posts 38

Someone please correct me if I am wrong, but does the NSW government have exclusivity over Project Sunrise flights for 3 years? Does. that mean we won't see Melbourne flights launched until 2028 at the earliest?

05 Dec 2013

Total posts 38

Not sure why this comment has been voted down? It was a simple question/observation, which nobody has replied to.

23 Oct 2014

Total posts 227

Cannot wait to hear and see photos of the Gym and running track in the cargo hold we have been drip feed over the last 3 years with countless announcements, will be great.

And the info on the yoga classes mid flight area with the ultra long haul jet lag busting salads and the like.

Thai Airways International - Royal Orchid Plus

15 Jan 2013

Total posts 430

Great for Business people but otherwise most of us prefer our Singapore stopovers(to London).

01 May 2022

Total posts 1

I’m surprised there hasn’t been more publicity for Australians to take advantage of a route via Auckland nonstop to JFK on Air NZ later in 2022 If the timetable from Syd/Mel was seamless surely many Aussies would fly that way to the Big Apple

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

08 Jun 2018

Total posts 14

Having done the Darwin to London flight last week, I think that the entire menu needs a serious rethink. The standard Perry menu doesn't cut it for such a long journey. Or perhaps a new QF chef to honour the new project. 

Etihad - Etihad Guest

21 Jul 2019

Total posts 135

@Tonyo

Hello. Your comment about the Neil Perry menu intrigues me. Can you please provide some specific details why it falls short? Meals are probably the biggest highlight for me on long hauls to London (usually I fly SQ); and I've yet to see any real benefit from having a famous chef 'design' the menu on most airlines. This is why I think SQ and TK catering are streets ahead: they can be fancy but they really concentrate on the substance to give you a wide selection of solid meal choices.

Far too often I see style over substance when that plate is put in front of at 30,000 feet, especially when it comes to glorified salad descriptions that read like novellas.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

09 Feb 2015

Total posts 349

I’m pleased the travelling public will have additional options, but I’ll stick to flights via Singapore when flying to London.

07 Nov 2020

Total posts 40

I'll stick with business class via Finnair at about half the price of Qantas.  I prefer at least one stop also.

15 Nov 2017

Total posts 11

hear hear!!  Love this, although MEL-SIN-HEL is better than MEL-HKG-HEL.  The 350 is an excellent quiet a/c.

07 Jan 2016

Total posts 37

Wow.   Flights to London in less than 20 hours.  I could literally be in Piccadilly in less time than it takes the Qantas call center to pick up the phone.

Thai Airways International - Royal Orchid Plus

15 Jan 2013

Total posts 430

The A300 was the introduction of Wide Bodies Domestically for TAA/Later Australian then Qantas Domestic.they stupidly thought more 767-300's to replace them from Boeing would be the answer before switching camps slowly to the A330's after the A300 was phased out.We don't have Adelaide to Singapore that connects onto QF1 to London on Qantas anymore so It for me is easier to either go through Perth or go Singapore Airlines via Singapore.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

26 May 2014

Total posts 457

“will see 2 sunrises”.  On a westbound flight of 20 hours you will see zero or one sunrise.  On an eastbound flight you will see one or two sunrises.  To get in 2 sunrises the flight would need to leave London late in the evening.  I don’t know that schedules are announced yet.  It is just marketing.

29 Jan 2012

Total posts 130

Great news for 21+ hr non stop travelers but feel they may be in the minority with most wishing to refresh during a flight break. Alan may be on the back foot with his NYC flights as ANZ is in far better position providing flights sooner from AU to NYC utilizing AKL as its one stop - where as non SYD based AU passenger will enjoy the wonderful and comfortable SYD transfer arrangement. 

If it's one stop to NYC I can see where bookings may go - depending on QF loyalty and pricing of course, but given the 20-30% fare excess for the experience, that may be another discussion point. With REX joining Delta and ANZ flying to NYC sooner, QF is stating to lose it's position no matter the marketing. Just my thoughts.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

04 Mar 2014

Total posts 207

Time saving on SYD-LHR is somewhat less if you cant fly over Russia

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1445

Jrfsp you are truly a pessimist if the overflight restrictions will still be in place in three years.

QF

11 Jul 2014

Total posts 801

2025 to far away, make it happen January 2024

08 Feb 2012

Total posts 4

The 'wellbeing zone' seems to be in the Door 3 location - but the images don't show the doors. Due to the lower pax count, could Door 3 be deleted, giving this space over to the wellbeing zone?

30 May 2018

Total posts 7

No thanks... lll take an overnight stopover in Bangkok or Singapore anyday over a 20 hour direct!

United Airlines - Mileage Plus

12 Sep 2011

Total posts 337

Or Narita/Handeda/Hong Kong/ Abu Dhabi 

CPB
CPB

26 Apr 2022

Total posts 2

PE would need to be 42” but the seat in front need to be in a shell so they do not encroach on seat behind similar to the JAL model

Dear Community, 

people interested in aviation should view this project from at least two different angles. At the First glimpe I am fascinated with the great progress of technology: A nearly 20 hours flight with an aircraft with only two jet engines. If you scrollt back to the beginning of the century (only a bit more than 20 years ago) there was an extensive discussion about twin engine jets crossing the comparatively smaller distance of the transatlantic between London, Paris, Frankfurt and New York.

Then the 4 engine Boeing B747-40 emerged and made nonstop flights between Europa and South American possible. Tha aircraft and its comfortable features like the extended Upper Deck was praised, not no surcharge of 30 or 40 percent claimed. 

Please accompany me through the Project Qantas Dawn (PQD) how I would call the project sunrise slightly exaggerated.. There are problems arising from the last row forward to the first row of Business Class. Let US summarize what passengers get:

+ In Economy Class (if the great seat map offered in this article is correct) passengers get the usual A350 XWB seating of 3-3-3 with 2 inches of additional legroom. And the tiny space called "wellbeing zone" on the floor area normally occupied by the galley. And the airline expects depending on the calculated break even seat load factor more than 105 passengers paying 30 % surcharge. Fun fact: Before the densification of Economy Class to the high density configuration some years ago 33 inch was the normal seat pitch on Intercontinental flights.
+ Premium Economy with its 8 seats per row has nearly the same epic disadvantage like Economy Class. The seats nö wider than normal, but 2 inches of legroom as unique spelling proposition.

Naturally for people enthusiastic in aviation it is pretty obvious: If travelling on the routes served the "WOW" factor will fill the seats in the weeks and months after inauguration flight with ease. But experience once or twice you think: Should I spend this money again and aigain for a product which is technologically great but has a lack of additional comfort value.

Sure I know that the additional weight of the fuel for the second nine hours of the 18+ hours flight has to be calculated and paid. But more than 300 kgs deadload of additional fuel just to avoid an intermediate stop? I don*t know if this commercially will make sense.

If yoo have a look to the Business Class section I agree that the three or four hour reduced travel time can make sense in the upper levels of executives, managers, lawyers or famous doctors. It is simply the calculation if the three or four hours shorter travel time is worth the cost.

The First Class always was and is about unique experiences and services. Therefore I assume that especially in comparison to the larger First Class compartments of the A380s and B747s in the air these will be sold out soon.

And at that point two types of generic competition will chime in: Firstly with "smallband" or "broadband" Wi-Fi connection a Business traveller can use at least a third of the time in air working like in his own office or environment. The 1-2-1 seating is perfect for this.

Nevertheless this project may be a money trap. With the "Boom" supersonic travel options at nearly the price of a Business Class Ticket you may shorten the duration of the journey by combining a supersonic flight with a long-haul "feeder" flight. If the "Boom" project is a commerciall success from 2030 on, Qantas has only five to eight years for a return of this large investment.

Without furtherado I conclude that this project with the delivered value proposition and the lack of cargo in hold is the boldest challange an airline can start. I wish Qantas good luck with that and I am convinced that this project wlll see a lot of modifications until the first scheduled flight.

Keeping my fingers crossed.

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1445

They were saying the same things about Perth  London and Sydney Dallas. These flights are very popular and that did not wane. This is an extra couple of hours on top of those.

Etihad - Etihad Guest

31 May 2019

Total posts 5

The first suites look very nice, but why do Qantas continue to over-promise and under-deliver? Why hype up below deck bunks and yoga classes before it's a done deal (though it likely was never a real option)? The premium economy looks the same as their current 787 dud and I'd not want to endure a 3 abreast economy class on such a flight. The 2-4-2 A330 configuration is superior to that. We will have to wait and see on the business class.

24 Aug 2011

Total posts 1110

PE will probably be OK if they do increase pitch to 40".  The reason it is such a flop on 787/A380 is the seat spacing of 38" means the extra recline just caused the seat to feel more restricted than the seat it replaced.  

I still think the solid shell seating used by JL etc is a better option for PE so maybe QF will bite the bullet and put an all-new seat in the A35K.

Joe
Joe

03 May 2013

Total posts 654

JL's Y Class is the most comfortable of any airline. If I'm ever to fly Y it would be JL only, hands down.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

17 Mar 2017

Total posts 16

Hopefully, they will have individual air vents for all customers. Although, this seems to be relegated to the dustbin these days. 
A 20-30% premium to fly direct? 
What about the fuel savings, airport landing fees, etc., that are being saved on a direct route?
Yes, I know there will need to be more fuel burnt carrying the extra fuel to go direct, but would this equate to the airport landing fees saved?
Does anyone have an insight into these charges?



04 Nov 2020

Total posts 16

Steve. In modern aircraft’s you don’t have individual air vents anymore, which is a shame I think.

Concerning the fuel, that is an interesting question, and I don’t have the insight. But initially I wouldn’t think they need more fuel, as without the stopover, they’d hopefully get better direct routings, and they safe the big amount of fuel they’d use, to climb back up to cruise altitude. So even though, they’ll need more fuel, and burning extra just to carry more fuel, the total amount might remain the same. Just my guess.

Would be interesting to know, also compared to the savings in airport fees, as you mention.

29 Jan 2012

Total posts 130

The one concept that seems to have been slightly overlooked is the actual time sitting in the aircraft. When you add 30-45 mins pre-take off time together with perhaps a further 60-90 mins circling over London, the actual cabin seat time could exceed 23-24 hrs in the one seat when the delays are added in - a touch longer than the advertised 20.5 hrs - and AJ is proposing a surcharge of 20-30% for the privilege. Much to be considered.

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1445

With a dozen planes in mind there must be a few other routes locked in. Perhaps Sydney Chicago (tight for a 789) and Paris/Frankfurt; but after that hard to see them. Rio and Capetown are a long shot methinks.


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