The problem for Perth Airport - and the taxpayer - is that establishing an international service from T3/T4 has required the duplication of a whole swag of international gateway tasks including customs, quarantine, security etc. Border Force had to recruit additional staff (about 60, so I'm told by somebody who works there), and so it goes. Perth Airport has always operated on the basis that all international flights operate from Terminal 1 so that there is an economy of scale for all those international tasks.
Having virtually ignored Perth for a decade and giving all their Perth-based passengers to Emirates, Qantas decide to come back and expect to call all the shots. Allowing them to operate internationally from T3 (and increase the number of services through that terminal) will threaten the viability of proposed extensions to T1. Qantas will quite happily settle in the T3/T4 forever and we the taxpayer will continue to subsidise the consequent inefficiencies imposed on the airport.
You have a point, but as you know, the T3 international wing is done. The staff are hired. Taxpayers money spent. Flights already launched.
If Perth didn't want QF to operate international flights from T3, they shouldnt have let them in the first place. The horse has bolted and not allowing further flights, is plain silly and achieves nothing. The impact on traffic at the international terminal is insignificant and if PER airport had decent management, they would be wanting to spend money on extensions to deal with growth in Asian aviation and to have all airlines operating from the same side of the airfield (which of course benefits everyone, but especially pax).
And as far as I know, QF wants to be on the other side of the airfield, but know it want happen until next decade.
Common sense tells you that all Qantas services should depart and arrive from the same terminal.
Common sense tells you that all international services should depart and arrive from the same terminal.
True. But common sense also tells you that it is the responsibility of effective airport management to design and run an airport that functionally works for airlines and customers. Having recently transited from PER international to QF domestic, I wouldn't want to be flying through PER on QF if they were operating from international terminal. Only Perth can make Sydney's transfer experience look great.
I actually thought when they launched the Perth - London flights, part of the agreement was for Qantas to shift to T1/T2 areas by 202X. So really I can't see the issue with them being combined in T3/T4 until then.
For Perth Airport to treat the national carrier so shabbily is just dumb.
National carrier? Surely you jest. Sydney Airlines pulled all its international flights from Perth (then instituted a 737 to Singapore). If you want to go anywhere overseas, Qantas is not an option for West Australians. It is the so-called "national carrier" who has treated Perth shabbily.
I have to say it irks me the way Qantas got in league with state and federal governments to lean on Perth Airport to allow T3/4 to be used for the Per - LHR service. I don't know the details of this current argument about Joburg, but I suspect the airport are trying to prevent Qantas further consolidating its position at the domestic terminals, to the ultimate detriment of the master plan for all carriers to exist in T1.
Qantas not only competes with heavily subsidised carriers but also has to try and serve all major Aussie markets. QF Perth's new International service only work as they can consolidate flights and hub passengers in from other parts of Australia, also using T3 and T4 allows it to maximise the utilisation of aircraft frames. QF will abandon JNB if they have to move to T1, however considering SAA's dire financial position and the well known fact the their Perth service loses money, one wonders how long they will remain on this route.
Qantas will only be using T3 and 4 for international services until ?then new T1 is completed in the mid 2020’s. So in the interim, why should they consolidate all their service to T3?
Common sense also says if you are on one airline then moving both the plane and the people a couple of km when you already have the facilities in your own terminal is really dumb and unnecessarily expensive, time consuming, and irritating. If Perth airport got on an built the QANTAS peir at terminal one then all would be solved. But still no news on that front.
The problem for Perth Airport - and the taxpayer - is that establishing an international service from T3/T4 has required the duplication of a whole swag of international gateway tasks including customs, quarantine, security etc. Border Force had to recruit additional staff (about 60, so I'm told by somebody who works there), and so it goes. Perth Airport has always operated on the basis that all international flights operate from Terminal 1 so that there is an economy of scale for all those international tasks.
Having virtually ignored Perth for a decade and giving all their Perth-based passengers to Emirates, Qantas decide to come back and expect to call all the shots. Allowing them to operate internationally from T3 (and increase the number of services through that terminal) will threaten the viability of proposed extensions to T1. Qantas will quite happily settle in the T3/T4 forever and we the taxpayer will continue to subsidise the consequent inefficiencies imposed on the airport.
That is a very short sighted view point. Just because that’s how it has always done doesn’t make it right to continue on that way.
As for Qantas calling the shots, it is their service surely they have every right to have a say in which terminal it operates from especially if it has an effect on how well it will work. They (Qantas) are 100% right it will require transfer passengers to work. Would be bizarre to land in domestic, passengers make their way on the bus, plane gets towed only to meet some of the same passengers. Repeat in return. When a one terminal operation is possible right now at no extra cost. In fact would be lower per passenger cost because it will use all those extra staff you spoke about.
Common sense tells you that all Qantas services should depart and arrive from the same terminal.
Common sense tells you that all international services should depart and arrive from the same terminal.
Why? Australia is in a very small group of countries where the concept of a separate international terminal exists. Considering very few people use Australian airports for international to international connections, surely it makes more sense to allow single terminal transfers for the majority of customers, usually based on airline or airline alliances.
Qantas has already revealed that Sydney will go this way. Most of the major airports of the world (eg Heathrow and JFK) use this strategy. It's better for the airlines and the passengers.
Common sense tells you that all Qantas services should depart and arrive from the same terminal.
Common sense tells you that all international services should depart and arrive from the same terminal.
Why? Australia is in a very small group of countries where the concept of a separate international terminal exists. Considering very few people use Australian airports for international to international connections, surely it makes more sense to allow single terminal transfers for the majority of customers, usually based on airline or airline alliances.
Qantas has already revealed that Sydney will go this way. Most of the major airports of the world (eg Heathrow and JFK) use this strategy. It's better for the airlines and the passengers.
Common sense? No. There are efficiencies in providing the various services to international operations at a common terminal. There are also efficiencies for QF in running all its operations from a common terminal complex. Overwhelming the convenience of passengers at Perth airport is best served by the approach QF is taking. International transfers at Perth would be rare if not non-existent. There will be some international to domestic transfers where QF is not the international carrier, but that will be across the airport anyway until the next stage of airport development. QF have invested significantly in T3 to make the most of current situation, so naturally they want to continue using T3 for all international operations until the redevelopment.
On your point Justin about alliance grouping at Sydney airport, that was being proposed some time ago, but I understood it was no longer under consideration following the buy-out of QF’s terminal leases.
Not sure Heathrow is the best example. The bus from Terminal 5 to Terminal 3 is as bad if not worse than Sydney (and remember BA is in both terminals not to mention their alliance and corporate colleagues (Iberia and Air Lingus) all in Terminal 3.
Common sense tells you that all Qantas services should depart and arrive from the same terminal.
Like they do in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane ... Oh wait, those airports are also seperated between domestic and international
MEL doesn't require a bus to connect between terminals like every other major airport in Australia. While you have to go land side to change between terminals, T1, T2 and T3 are all in the same building. Meanwhile, the domestic terminals are on the other side of the airfield at SYD, BNE and PER.
PER seems to be trying to fix that, but it will take years to do so. QF was allowed, by both the airport and the government, to set up an international wing at their domestic terminal, as a temporary measure while new terminals/wings are built on the other side of the airfield. They should be allowed to operate all their flights from that terminal, until such time as new terminal construction is able to accommodate the entireaity of the QF operation on the side of the airfield that the airport wants them.
Poisson
Poisson
QFF
Member since 06 Nov 2012
Total posts 21
Common sense tells you that all international services should depart and arrive from the same terminal.
hutch
hutch
Member since 07 Oct 2012
Total posts 771
You have a point, but as you know, the T3 international wing is done. The staff are hired. Taxpayers money spent. Flights already launched.
hutch
hutch
Member since 07 Oct 2012
Total posts 771
Common sense tells you that all international services should depart and arrive from the same terminal.
True. But common sense also tells you that it is the responsibility of effective airport management to design and run an airport that functionally works for airlines and customers. Having recently transited from PER international to QF domestic, I wouldn't want to be flying through PER on QF if they were operating from international terminal. Only Perth can make Sydney's transfer experience look great.
patrickk
patrickk
Qantas
Member since 19 Apr 2012
Total posts 731
For Perth Airport to treat the national carrier so shabbily is just dumb.
bagpuss
bagpuss
Member since 18 Jan 2017
Total posts 28
Like they do in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane ... Oh wait, those airports are also seperated between domestic and international
bagpuss
bagpuss
Member since 18 Jan 2017
Total posts 28
I actually thought when they launched the Perth - London flights, part of the agreement was for Qantas to shift to T1/T2 areas by 202X.
So really I can't see the issue with them being combined in T3/T4 until then.
Poisson
Poisson
QFF
Member since 06 Nov 2012
Total posts 21
National carrier? Surely you jest. Sydney Airlines pulled all its international flights from Perth (then instituted a 737 to Singapore). If you want to go anywhere overseas, Qantas is not an option for West Australians. It is the so-called "national carrier" who has treated Perth shabbily.
Austline
Austline
Member since 23 Aug 2011
Total posts 43
Red Cee
Red Cee
Member since 15 Feb 2018
Total posts 151
Qantas will only be using T3 and 4 for international services until ?then new T1 is completed in the mid 2020’s. So in the interim, why should they consolidate all their service to T3?
patrickk
patrickk
Qantas
Member since 19 Apr 2012
Total posts 731
Common sense also says if you are on one airline then moving both the plane and the people a couple of km when you already have the facilities in your own terminal is really dumb and unnecessarily expensive, time consuming, and irritating. If Perth airport got on an built the QANTAS peir at terminal one then all would be solved. But still no news on that front.
AJW
AJW
Member since 16 Nov 2011
Total posts 55
That is a very short sighted view point. Just because that’s how it has always done doesn’t make it right to continue on that way.
justin.thomas7
justin.thomas7
Member since 19 Oct 2017
Total posts 1
Common sense tells you that all international services should depart and arrive from the same terminal.
Why? Australia is in a very small group of countries where the concept of a separate international terminal exists. Considering very few people use Australian airports for international to international connections, surely it makes more sense to allow single terminal transfers for the majority of customers, usually based on airline or airline alliances.
GregXL
GregXL
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 26 May 2014
Total posts 320
Common sense tells you that all international services should depart and arrive from the same terminal.
Why? Australia is in a very small group of countries where the concept of a separate international terminal exists. Considering very few people use Australian airports for international to international connections, surely it makes more sense to allow single terminal transfers for the majority of customers, usually based on airline or airline alliances.
Common sense? No. There are efficiencies in providing the various services to international operations at a common terminal. There are also efficiencies for QF in running all its operations from a common terminal complex. Overwhelming the convenience of passengers at Perth airport is best served by the approach QF is taking. International transfers at Perth would be rare if not non-existent. There will be some international to domestic transfers where QF is not the international carrier, but that will be across the airport anyway until the next stage of airport development. QF have invested significantly in T3 to make the most of current situation, so naturally they want to continue using T3 for all international operations until the redevelopment.
patrickk
patrickk
Qantas
Member since 19 Apr 2012
Total posts 731
Not sure Heathrow is the best example. The bus from Terminal 5 to Terminal 3 is as bad if not worse than Sydney (and remember BA is in both terminals not to mention their alliance and corporate colleagues (Iberia and Air Lingus) all in Terminal 3.
Himeno
Himeno
Member since 12 Dec 2012
Total posts 295
Like they do in Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane ... Oh wait, those airports are also seperated between domestic and international
MEL doesn't require a bus to connect between terminals like every other major airport in Australia. While you have to go land side to change between terminals, T1, T2 and T3 are all in the same building. Meanwhile, the domestic terminals are on the other side of the airfield at SYD, BNE and PER.
PER seems to be trying to fix that, but it will take years to do so. QF was allowed, by both the airport and the government, to set up an international wing at their domestic terminal, as a temporary measure while new terminals/wings are built on the other side of the airfield. They should be allowed to operate all their flights from that terminal, until such time as new terminal construction is able to accommodate the entireaity of the QF operation on the side of the airfield that the airport wants them.