Does Qantas really want me to fly with them?

71 replies

Serg

QFF

Member since 12 Apr 2013

Total posts 870

Serg - I'd suggest doing your research before posting. Your QF MEL-SIN and MEL-HKG frequencies are technically wrong as they are double-daily on some days, and QF also flies to SIN and seasonally to AKL from PER. 



Ah, sorry for this technicalities. So you are saying that IN TOTAL QF has more flight (and ultimately shifts more pax) MEL-SIN than SQ  (and MEL-HKG than CX)? Did I understood you correctly?

Ah and also I missed that citizens of Perth (4-th biggest city in country!) was finally blessed by National Flag Carrier by one daily overseas flight by mighty and roomy B737!!!!!!!!! Hooray! Everyone in line to fly 5 hr PER-SIN in unbelievably comfy B737 business! Indeed it worth each and every cent to pay extra $658.54 to fly QF by B737 instead of SQ by B777/A330 (dummy booking on 16-23 FEB shows $1,995.46 by SQ and $2654 by QF)! And as bonus Perthians even can seasonally fly to NZ. Indeed what else they can ask for? After that no-one can deny that Qantas looking very well after Australians as a whole and Perthians in particular.

FYI SQ flying 4 times per day from Perth to Singapore - 2 B777 and 2 A330

I'd suggest employ common sense and admit that SQ (and perhaps many others) has more rights can be called "Australian National Airline" than QF. As least when it coming to overseas travel.

Last editedby Serg at Jan 20, 2017, 08:48 AM.

Serg

QFF

Member since 12 Apr 2013

Total posts 870

...Putting aside price for the moment (and yes I get it that you are a price driven consumer), why are you stating such an opinion of a product that you don't 'seem' to have experienced yet alone purchased? 


And given this lack of real world experience (hey, I'm in assumption mode here working off your comments), why would you state "they deserve it"?...

One more. I recently flown QF business (SIN-MEL) TWICE by redemption - I have not purchased tickets by money, but got them by points. IMHO only QF master (I mean EK) has worse and more uglier business seats in their 777 (yes, I flown them also and utterly hate their plastic wood). New QF business suppose to be good (have not try it as yet), but no freaking way "streets ahead" of any reputable competitors like SQ or CX.
And yes, of course that I am incredibly price-driven customer looking for pairs of business tickets MEL-MXP! You ABSOLUTELY right!

Alex Moris

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 10 Jan 2017

Total posts 1

Don't bother with Qantas when you can spend your money and get value in service, new aircraft, new inflight hard products with Emirates, Singapore, Qatar etc. Qantas A380 is like stepping into a 1930's cabin and old/tired grumpy crew.

Speak

Member since 30 Dec 2014

Total posts 25

Serg - I'd suggest doing your research before posting. Your QF MEL-SIN and MEL-HKG frequencies are technically wrong as they are double-daily on some days, and QF also flies to SIN and seasonally to AKL from PER. 


Ah, sorry for this technicalities. So you are saying that IN TOTAL QF has more flight (and ultimately shifts more pax) MEL-SIN than SQ  (and MEL-HKG than CX)? Did I understood you correctly?

Ah and also I missed that citizens of Perth (4-th biggest city in country!) was finally blessed by National Flag Carrier by one daily overseas flight by mighty and roomy B737!!!!!!!!! Hooray! Everyone in line to fly 5 hr PER-SIN in unbelievably comfy B737 business! Indeed it worth each and every cent to pay extra $658.54 to fly QF by B737 instead of SQ by B777/A330 (dummy booking on 16-23 FEB shows $1,995.46 by SQ and $2654 by QF)! And as bonus Perthians even can seasonally fly to NZ. Indeed what else they can ask for? After that no-one can deny that Qantas looking very well after Australians as a whole and Perthians in particular.

FYI SQ flying 4 times per day from Perth to Singapore - 2 B777 and 2 A330

I'd suggest employ common sense and admit that SQ (and perhaps many others) has more rights can be called "Australian National Airline" than QF. As least when it coming to overseas travel.
Last edited by Serg at Jan 20, 2017, 08.48 AM.

Hi Serg. Couple of things:
- No I am not saying that QF are bigger than SQ or CX specifically on those market. I am just saying that your claim that QF only fly once per day on those markets is incorrect. 
- QF fly PER-SIN double-daily 4 days of the week, with one of the services on an A330. Again, I would recommend doing some research before posting so that you are quoting accurate information on frequency, capacity, and equipment type. 
- I'm not going to argue 'common sense', but I'm happy to quote statistics. According to the the latest Department of Infrastructure's statistical report on international airline activity (Google BITRE if you would like to learn more) QF carried 15.9% of international passengers in or out of Australia for FY2016, which is more than any other airline. So, emotion aside, there is a quantitative claim that Qantas remains "Australia's National Airline".

markpk

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 29 Nov 2013

Total posts 446

...Putting aside price for the moment (and yes I get it that you are a price driven consumer), why are you stating such an opinion of a product that you don't 'seem' to have experienced yet alone purchased? 


And given this lack of real world experience (hey, I'm in assumption mode here working off your comments), why would you state "they deserve it"?...

One more. I recently flown QF business (SIN-MEL) TWICE by redemption - I have not purchased tickets by money, but got them by points. IMHO only QF master (I mean EK) has worse and more uglier business seats in their 777 (yes, I flown them also and utterly hate their plastic wood). New QF business suppose to be good (have not try it as yet), but no freaking way "streets ahead" of any reputable competitors like SQ or CX.
And yes, of course that I am incredibly price-driven customer looking for pairs of business tickets MEL-MXP! You ABSOLUTELY right!

Serg, you stated twice...two times...that "I do not remember when I purchased QF tickets last time". Yet now you state you "got them two times by points" 

This is a purchase Serg - you redeemed points (currency), you paid taxes and surcharges (currency). 

Which version of events is correct? No experience? or you have experience but had a silly sausage moment and forgot that you redeemed thousands of points and probably a few hundred dollars AND spent what? a total of close to 35 hours in Qantas J? 

Serg

QFF

Member since 12 Apr 2013

Total posts 870

...QF carried 15.9% of international passengers in or out of Australia for FY2016...

Mate, I do not even give a damn how many pax they carry to DBX (their favorite destination because it is hub of their master) - I do not fly this direction and never will. QF is truly and completely sux when you talking routes like MEL-HKG, MEL-SIN, MEL-BKK and to ANY direction from Perth. And yes, I do not even give a damn how many flights they do from SYD. YMMV of course.
Also I do not care to do deep research to "proof" or "disproof" something - if you wish you are more than welcome to correct me. However dummy booking on random dates suggest that QF flying from MEL (remember, I do not care about Sydney and only transit via Sydney if I absolutely must, like no other point tickets and I will NEVER transit via Sydney if I pay my own money) to SIN or HKG once per day (perhaps I am not interested to fly in the middle of the week?) and from PER to SIN also once per day using B373. It is true shame for National Flag Carrier and even if you 100% correct it will not change my opinion.
NB Also I am 100% sure (if you wish, please check it!) that they count Qantas TICKETS, not Qantas METAL. As I said above why the heck I will buy QF ticket on EK (or any other carrier for this merit) if I can buy directly and save?

Last editedby Serg at Jan 21, 2017, 05:15 PM.

Serg

QFF

Member since 12 Apr 2013

Total posts 870

...This is a purchase Serg - you redeemed points...

You are dead right - it was REDEMPTION - purchase is when I pay money. If you cannot see difference I can happily pointing them out for you. With redemption I restricted with rules and routes as they given to me by QANTAS while with purchases I can talk to anyone and choose whatever I please.
Point was very simple (if you still that much blind that you cannot see it) - Qantas does not worth MONEY asked. And with POINTS I have no choice. Though will fly with Qantas any day instead  of with Emirates and indeed it is MUCH easier to REDEEM QANTAS points for EMIRATES flight on QANTAS website. Go figure.

Last editedby Serg at Jan 21, 2017, 09:25 PM.

dimi

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 13 Jul 2012

Total posts 151

Mate, I do not even give a damn how many pax they carry to DBX (their favorite destination because it is hub of their master) - I do not fly this direction and never will.

Last edited by Serg at Jan 21, 2017, 05.15 PM.


Wait a minute Serg...

If I remember correctly this whole thread started with you complaining how expensive Qantas business fares to Milan via DXB were...

You were really really committed to supporting Australian workers by flying to Milan on Qantas, if only Qantas had not tried to charge you an arm and a leg...

Now it turns out, you don't care how many passengers they carry to DXB because you never flew in that direction and had no intention to ever do so...

Do you mind my asking:

What in the world was this all about - "Does Qantas really want me to fly with them"?

Is this Milan trip for real or just a pretext for this whole thead?

Last editedby dimi at Jan 22, 2017, 02:55 AM.

Serg

QFF

Member since 12 Apr 2013

Total posts 870

...ever do so...

Do you mind my asking:

What in the world was this all about - "Does Qantas really want me to fly with them"?

Is this Milan trip for real or just a pretext for this whole thead?

Last edited by dimi at Jan 22, 2017, 02.55 AM.

1. Question was rhetorical and I pointed it somewhere above
2. Milan trip is for real and it will happens. After brief research I was stricken by HOW MUCH Qantas more expensive and inconvenient.
3. I would fly via DXB-LHR just to support our workers even if I dislike DXB and route via LHR not the shortest one, but only if prices competitive enough (will pay like 10% above competition for this) and only on QF metal and my point was that EXACTLY those tickets among most expensive from Qantas.
4. All points in this thread related - i.e. QF noncompetitive in price, noncompetitive in frequency and destinations of flights, noncompetitive in hardware (business seats) and tend to sell me tickets on EK metal that I do not like to use. So I (rhetorically) questioning how they imagine that Australians (not corporate who do not care about prices) will choose to fly Qantas. And obvious answer that they do not care. At all. Because they collecting their money somehow else.
If you cannot get my rant (in reality it is no more than that), then just ignore it and move on. You do not need to agree with me or share my POV. And please give me rights to do the same.

Cheers.

dimi

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 13 Jul 2012

Total posts 151

... All points in this thread related - i.e. QF noncompetitive in price, noncompetitive in frequency and destinations of flights, noncompetitive in hardware (business seats) and tend to sell me tickets on EK metal that I do not like to use. So I (rhetorically) questioning how they imagine that Australians (not corporate who do not care about prices) will choose to fly Qantas. And obvious answer that they do not care. At all. Because they collecting their money somehow else.
If you cannot get my rant (in reality it is no more than that), then just ignore it and move on. You do not need to agree with me or share my POV. And please give me rights to do the same.

Sure, no problem mate - please rant on :)

As for my POV on the whole discussion, I tend to think that your definition of "Australians" (i.e. those Australians who choose to fly business class and who are non-corporate) may not include too many people.

Sorry to say that but most of regular Australians fly economy or premium economy at best. They cannot not afford paying $6000 out of the pocket to fly business class without their company paying for them, so the question of Finnair business class vs Qantas business class is purely theoretical to the actual 99% of Australians.

Those who fly business class because their company is paying for it value the time it take to reach the destination and perks they get from the airline for it. Given a huge number of connections from Dubai to the rest of Europe on Emirates, the Qantas-Emirates alliance really works quite well, so in my point of view this was a clear win for Qantas. There are of course some people's ideological preference not to fly through a muslim country, but its their own problem.
With respect to perks for fliers, I have to say I do not have a great deal of admiration for what Qantas is doing here. Qantas has taken steps clear steps to increase its stranglehold on its frequent flyers by limiting points it grants to fliers who choose to book their tickets with other carriers (Cathay, Malaysia, AA etc). In my opinion, they do this because they can (although to be fair, many of OneWorld airlines have done the same) and because people are reluctant to change their frequent flier program. Nonetheless, increased stranglehold allows them to increase prices they charge to people who are less price-sensitive.

This leaves a slither of people who you call "Australians", i.e. those who have spare $6000 per person in their pocket to spend on a flight to Europe, out in the cold. Finnair sounds like a very reasonable choice in this case (I flew it a couple of times myself, and it is very good).


WIth regards to the "national airline", I have no clue what it means - sorry.
With all due respect, I don't think it means "giving the best possible deal and the most comfortable possible seat to a dude who wants to fly business class but pay as little for it as possible".
Qantas being profitable and not draining taxpayers money (as many "national airlines" do) sounds like a very good thing to me. 
If they resort to nasty marketing tricks to suck out as much money from travellers and manage to keep their flight full nonetheless - kudos to them. I would very much prefer Finnish or Malaysian airlines going into the red to support cheaper business class fares for Australians, then Qantas.

Cheers - and have a good trip to Milan with Finnair.

Serg

QFF

Member since 12 Apr 2013

Total posts 870

Mate, you would be surprise how many non-business travelers buying business class tickets nowadays. Many (and I am strong supporter of such POV) decline to fly in shocking sardine class that Economy became nowadays for more then 4 hr and I rather will go so Simpson Desert on my 4WD then fly to Europe if I cannot afford comfortable fly. Some believe that they "must" go to Europe (or America or any other place for this merit) each year or even twice per year, but I rather save and go once per two years, but will travel like human been. Other times I will go Outback - trust me there is plenty to see. Of course YMMV. Also consider that this site called ausBT, so there is no much surprise that people discussing here predominantly business class.

National carrier? My best guess that this is airline that I can be proud of at any corner of the Globe. Qantas use to be like this (in now distant past they where 10 years or so Best Airline of The Word), but since privatization and deregulation it going down each and every yest. They do not care about "being Australian company" anymore - all about money. Fair enough for public company, but this is not what I like to see. And yes, YMMV.

Nothing should be seen in black and white - even if Qantas as you say takes no money from taxpayers, indirectly all this money-only driven businesses eventually shifted to places where workforce is cheaper ultimately removing jobs from country and as result increase burden on budget (yep, your taxes) because more social benefits has to be paid. Not to say that high-tech stuff (and I mean both - production and people) expels from country and with each year we became more and more raw material supplement to China. You may see it as positive, but I am not.

As to QF-EK so called "partnership" I only can see benefits for EK and I can see that QF with deepening this "relationship" more and more became nothing bigger than EK ticketbox office. I rather see QF deepening relationship with BA or with AY for this merit. And yes, I "ideologically" sick to realize that QF bends over in front of EK to extend that there is no pork on any QF plane that fly to or from Dubai. If (as QF try me to believe) it is just our "courtesy" to country where we flying to/from, then I do expect similar "courtesy" from them when they flying to/from Australia. But evidently it did not happen, do not happen and never will happen. Now try to convince me that this "relationship" equal. And again YMMV.

So lets agree to disagree. I am sure that I will have great experience with CX or AY - unfortunatelly I unlikely to choose such great carrier as SQ purely because they not in One World.

Have a good day


dimi

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 13 Jul 2012

Total posts 151

All points in this thread related - i.e. QF noncompetitive in price, noncompetitive in frequency and destinations of flights, noncompetitive in hardware (business seats) and tend to sell me tickets on EK metal that I do not like to use.


Hmm it turns out I can't stop ranting myself once it started :)


Your argument about Qantas being uncompetitive because the don't have enough flights or wrong seats sounds a little inside out to me.


I would turn this argument around: Qantas does not have enough flights/hardware from Perth and Melbourne to SIN, BKK or HKG =because= they are uncompetitive, not vice versa. 


SIA, Cathay and Thai offer a bunch of connections to the rest of Asia to Australian travellers.

The problem with Qantas, is that it does not have any Asian partners and the only connection it can offer is... actually Finnair to Helsinki. Plus of course Jetstar Asia, from Singapore. 


Jetstar Asia may be the only reason why Qantas still has 3 daily flights in SIN from Sydney and Melbourne. Other than that they can only cater to travellers who end their journeys in BKK or HKG (or a few people who go further on Finnair).


Qantas have made several attempts to establish more foothold in Asia, but has been unsuccessful so far. It's deal with Malaysia feel through (which may have been a good thing, looking back to what happened to Malaysia), Cathay has been openly hostile (rejecting partnership and blocking Jetstar HK, cutting off any option for Qantas of offering more connections via HK).


From that point of view, Qantas deal with Emirates have been one of the few wins for Qantas over the past few years from my point of view, where Qantas can still fly two full A380s a day to DXB and Emirates handling connections to Europe for it. Emirates seem to be one of the few options QF had that did not involve complete withdrawal from the European market (a definite improvement over the earlier deal with BA which was clearly advantageous to BA only).


Another potential win could be the deal with China Eastern; we will have to see whether this is going to bring Qantas a steady stream of Chinese travellers.


Do I want Qantas to offer more flights and better seats to HKG, SIN and BKK? Yes of course.

Do I want them to do it if causes them to bleed red ink? No way (sorry Melbourne and Perth).


I have no clue whether anyone at Qantas still thinking about deals with Asian carriers. I suspect somebody is, but I have no clue.

Until Qantas comes up with another partnership in Asia, it is not going to offer any more flights, and this in my opinion is for the better.

dimi

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 13 Jul 2012

Total posts 151

Sorry the second half of my rant came after you posted your reponse. 

I agree to disagree.

In my opinion it should be all about money for Qantas.

Taxpayer sponsoring unprofitable Qantas will invoke paying a bunch of money for jet fuel, not jobs. 

The question of how to stimulate job creation in Australia is another rant to work on at a different time.

I don't think that should involve paying millions of dollars to have a national carrier that Australians can take to every distant corner of the world. 

Cheers.



Last editedby dimi at Jan 22, 2017, 01:42 PM.

rufusfly

Member since 13 May 2016

Total posts 54

Mate, you would be surprise how many non-business travelers buying business class tickets nowadays.
My wife and I fly J class and we are both retired . We fly Qantas to Asia .Next trip to Paris with QF/AY

Serg

QFF

Member since 12 Apr 2013

Total posts 870

OK, lets discuss :-)))

IMHO QANTAS lost Asia battle voluntary - they transit via SIN and they decide that DXB is better. Fair enough, but I still like transit via Asia (SIN, BKK, HKG) and I will do so. And frankly I am not alone. Perhaps majority do not care and it is fine by me, but in return I do not care either :-)))

As I said above QF (in my opinion, your and AJ can be different) would be better off to partner to BA (my preference) or with AY (probably would be even better considering relatively small size of both carriers). I absolutely disagree that partnership with BA was one way ticket - IMHO going to bed with EK is indeed one way ticket. Yes, BA is significantly bigger and indeed will dictate their POV, but so EK and from my perspective I like to see Brits in control, not Arabs, sorry if I sounds "ideologically". This is why I believe that QF would be far better off to befriend with AY - two small national carrier could work together for mutual benefits. BTW keep in mind that QF "benefits" only Australia (relatively small market) plus few Kiwis (ridiculously small market) while ANY European company offers whole Europe for Australians and nothing can be done with that.

So IMHO so called "partnership" with EK is total loss - yes they could gain few pennies today, but eventually it diminish and demolish QF further down and everyone in the world will see Qantas as "fifth leg" of EK and IMHO rightly so.

Money? Yes, they important. But frankly reputation eventually brings more benefits. Tactics never won over strategy :-)))

Cheers.

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