Other than taking up less space (less pitch), why the passion for “Euro-business” in Europe? How often does the “curtain” get moved back and forth? Why not something like PE with just a few extra inches of pitch in the first few rows?
Probably just to give them more flexibility and make it cheaper to offer. Euro-business is generally cheaper than business in AU domestically compared to economy tickets.
I flew 4 flights in October with Swiss and TAP in 'Euro-business' and apart from the seats the service otherwise was pretty good though you don't get the same level of attention as in AU domestic business classes.
On one Swiss flight out of Zurich there were 5 or 6 rows of 'business' and each seat was full while most were just two rows (with the middle free of course) so it seemed they are setup to move the curtain around.
It gives them incredible flexibility to price their seats. For the high seasons with ultra-high demand, they can afford to price business at a VERY high premium whilst maintaining a very full cabin and in the low season continue to offer a high priced premium product without having empty seats.
No more room in J than economy means the return per m2 is significantly higher in J, great business decision for the airline. Personally I struggle on the value and offering v Aus, but there are many pax who are more than happy to pay the >5x price for J v economy.
Me, I prefer to fly economy in exit rows and make best use of the lounges.
EU majors have to compete with LCCs and they do that successfully by densifying seating such that both classes are the same pitch with a flexible partition.
Some majors leave the middle seat vacant in J class.
Australia doesn't have LCC competition like the EU where two LCCs each have more European pax than any major.
QF SYD-MEL is the 2nd most profitable route in the world so they are happy to provide better seating
The Euro airlines can’t predict J demand on each of the huge number of flights they have so the fixed seat system. I was on a BA flight to Stockholm where 2/3 of the flight was in front of the curtain. Imagine the revenue return costing BA max €20 in booze and food. If the exit row falls in Y it’s much better value.
Also remember that much of the business (J) class demand in Europe is connecting traffic onto long haul. The airlines are obliged to provide a J class cabin for those pax but still maintain the flexibility of a movable curtain for high leisure sectors where there isn't much premium demand otherwise. At Christmas I flew from Athens to London via Frankfurt on Lufthansa in J class for only 100Euros more than economy total.
I worked out of Heathrow as a senoir crew member for 20 years and the load are what is important in the seating. On a Monday morning 1st flght out of LHR you could have 80 business class on the return you may have 10. So after landing and the aircraf was cleaned, you changed the seating and moved the curtain. I once did a Airbus A321 AMS-LHR with the all seats business class but on the way over just 4. It's the louges and express check in, fast track securtiy (At LHR that was a big plus) and other enhancments. LHR-EDI 50mins, LHR-AMS 40mins (on a bad day for the service 30mins on a A321 195 seats) Yes a service was done.
So if BA can serve 80 business class passengers on a 30 min flight why do airlines insist that on a long haul flight you have your seat up etc 20 mins before landing?
Probably because crew have to check more pax, many may not be frequent flyers, or with children and that takes longer.
Best service was on the very old PanAm B727 shuttle from FRA to West Berlin, a beverage and snack on 25 minute flight. Cleared up on the descent to land!
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Why do European airlines love 'Euro-business' class?
SimonFrost
SimonFrost
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 10 Jul 2013
Total posts 69
Other than taking up less space (less pitch), why the passion for “Euro-business” in Europe? How often does the “curtain” get moved back and forth? Why not something like PE with just a few extra inches of pitch in the first few rows?
oliver_adl
oliver_adl
Member since 18 Jul 2018
Total posts 16
Probably just to give them more flexibility and make it cheaper to offer. Euro-business is generally cheaper than business in AU domestically compared to economy tickets.
djtech
djtech
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 02 Sep 2018
Total posts 375
It gives them incredible flexibility to price their seats. For the high seasons with ultra-high demand, they can afford to price business at a VERY high premium whilst maintaining a very full cabin and in the low season continue to offer a high priced premium product without having empty seats.
Clancy
Clancy
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 31 Jan 2016
Total posts 78
No more room in J than economy means the return per m2 is significantly higher in J, great business decision for the airline. Personally I struggle on the value and offering v Aus, but there are many pax who are more than happy to pay the >5x price for J v economy.
Me, I prefer to fly economy in exit rows and make best use of the lounges.
BigH
BigH
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
Member since 24 Dec 2012
Total posts 33
Even Lufthansa is like this. We are indeed spoilt in AU
Geoffair
Geoffair
Member since 04 May 2018
Total posts 42
EU majors have to compete with LCCs and they do that successfully by densifying seating such that both classes are the same pitch with a flexible partition.
paulkaz
paulkaz
Member since 01 Mar 2011
Total posts 32
The Euro airlines can’t predict J demand on each of the huge number of flights they have so the fixed seat system. I was on a BA flight to Stockholm where 2/3 of the flight was in front of the curtain. Imagine the revenue return costing BA max €20 in booze and food. If the exit row falls in Y it’s much better value.
alex_upgrade77
alex_upgrade77
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 08 Sep 2012
Total posts 47
Also remember that much of the business (J) class demand in Europe is connecting traffic onto long haul. The airlines are obliged to provide a J class cabin for those pax but still maintain the flexibility of a movable curtain for high leisure sectors where there isn't much premium demand otherwise. At Christmas I flew from Athens to London via Frankfurt on Lufthansa in J class for only 100Euros more than economy total.
JohnUKAUS
JohnUKAUS
Member since 08 Nov 2018
Total posts 2
I worked out of Heathrow as a senoir crew member for 20 years and the load are what is important in the seating. On a Monday morning 1st flght out of LHR you could have 80 business class on the return you may have 10. So after landing and the aircraf was cleaned, you changed the seating and moved the curtain. I once did a Airbus A321 AMS-LHR with the all seats business class but on the way over just 4. It's the louges and express check in, fast track securtiy (At LHR that was a big plus) and other enhancments. LHR-EDI 50mins, LHR-AMS 40mins (on a bad day for the service 30mins on a A321 195 seats) Yes a service was done.
Davedownunder
Davedownunder
Member since 19 Aug 2011
Total posts 5
So if BA can serve 80 business class passengers on a 30 min flight why do airlines insist that on a long haul flight you have your seat up etc 20 mins before landing?
Geoffair
Geoffair
Member since 04 May 2018
Total posts 42
Probably because crew have to check more pax, many may not be frequent flyers, or with children and that takes longer.