Why don’t any of Australian airlines (Qf, jq, va) operate dat time flight from Asia back to oz. they all seem to head north during the day, then head home overnight. Why can’t they provide some different times instead of following each other. Mean I have to travel cox or sq.
Who would like Aus airlines to operate day time flight from Asia back to Oz?
I think it’s actually more to do with airline schedules for the Australia-based airlines.
In order to offer a day flight from Asia to Australia, the outward flight from Australia would need to be a night flight in order to minimise the fees associated with leaving an aircraft parked at the airport all day.
At the moment, the flights leave Australia in the morning and arrive in the Asian cities late afternoon. They then can turn the planes round straight away and fly back to Australia by the morning.
It would be totally uneconomical to leave the planes sitting on the tarmac from late afternoon until the morning of the next day.
Because Australia has a sheep mentality, not just airlines but across most businesses in Australia its a case of following the flock, tweak it a little to make it look different, undercut the price by 2%, but essentially offer the same thing as everyone else.
I quite enjoyed the Thai 747 service from Sydney at 10am. The 7-9 hour return overnight flights from Asia are irritating as it's almost impossible for me to get a good sleep on them. Meal service takes 2+ hours and then another 1.5 hours before we land.
I don't think the loads would be there for earlier departures, it's just
not really what the market wants e.g. a midday flight out of Hong Kong
really just gives pax one useless day in Hong Kong where they can't
achieve anything meaningful, but are forced to pay for an extra night of
accomodation. It also doesn't allow inbound international connections a
sufficient window to arrive at these Asian hubs in time to make the
onward journey home to Australia.
The current flight timetable is actually a bit of a symphony of efficiency, if you think about it. Having your Asia flights arrive at similar times in the morning offers all kinds of wonderful time, money and efficiency shortcuts for the airlines here in Australia.
You don't have to worry about missing or breaching airport flight noise/time restrictions.
You're not having to pay excessive penalty rates to ground staff for working unsociable overnight hours.
You have your flights arriving in the early morning, when pax can get home easily by taxi, public transport or family member.
You have planes on the ground in time to clean and turn around for their morning departures back to Asia.
Your morning departures to Asia are useful in that it allows your pax to make their other international connections that afternoon.
You can narrow the window of time that your lounges must operate.
The flight timetables are a product of market forces, and they (QF/VA) really have this nailed down to the best possible configuration without overcatering and having half-empty planes in the sky.
Doesn't really phase me since I'm not strongly brand loyal. If I have to/want to take a day flight, I'll fly any airline that offers it.
Hey Dredgy. Out of interest, what status do you hold with Oneworld / Sky Team / Star Alliance ? Do you think your status level would be affected if you did have a stronger brand loyalty one way or the other? (Just curious to know the rationale, no judgment!) Cheers!
As part of the broader business model for VA and QF, flights arriving in the morning can easily connect to their domestic/Tasman network. As mentioned by another posted previously, evening departures also favour the business traveller to get a full day of work done.
I quite like the overnight flights from Asia - means I can spend a full day wherever I am, head to the airport at the end of the day for dinner in the lounge, get on board and go straight to sleep, avoiding the need to stay awake for a couple of hours on board for a meal, because I've just eaten.
I'm not fussed about waking up early before landing for a bite of breakfast, either: I'd rather get the extra sleep and just eat something when I get home. (Kudos to the cabin crew on a recent Cathay Pacific flight though, who woke me up just in time to get dressed before the seatbelt light came on, and offered me a latte and croissant before touchdown.)
On the other hand, if I take a daytime flight home from Asia, it usually means an early start, and by extension, means I'm paying for an extra hotel night without getting much 'extra' time in the city... instead of paying for that night, I pay as well fly home the evening prior, even if on a midnight flight after dinner or drinks in the city.
I don't think the loads would be there for earlier departures, it's just
not really what the market wants e.g. a midday flight out of Hong Kong
really just gives pax one useless day in Hong Kong where they can't
achieve anything meaningful, but are forced to pay for an extra night of
accomodation.
CX offers daytime flights departing HKG to Australia at lunchtime - they can make it work profitably!
It's a combination of schedules and this peculiar belief that Australian airlines have that everyone must arrive in Australia at dawn! It's as though it's some religious rule that everyone must descend on Australia at 6am.
I much prefer an afternoon or night time arrival into Australia so I can go home and go to bed for a good sleep.
I don't think the loads would be there for earlier departures, it's just
not really what the market wants e.g. a midday flight out of Hong Kong
really just gives pax one useless day in Hong Kong where they can't
achieve anything meaningful, but are forced to pay for an extra night of
accomodation.
CX offers daytime flights departing HKG to Australia at lunchtime - they can make it work profitably!
It's a combination of schedules and this peculiar belief that Australian airlines have that everyone must arrive in Australia at dawn! It's as though it's some religious rule that everyone must descend on Australia at 6am.
I much prefer an afternoon or night time arrival into Australia so I can go home and go to bed for a good sleep.
I would also like to be able to fly during the day so I can get to home/hotel in late afternoon/early evening.
It would be nice if QF would have a day and night option in each direction, at least to some airports (Singapore, Tokyo and Hong Kong would be a good start). They could do what JAL has done with their SYD/MEL timetable and have BNE-NRT night north, day south and MEL-NRT day north, night south.
I don't think the loads would be there for earlier departures, it's just
not really what the market wants e.g. a midday flight out of Hong Kong
really just gives pax one useless day in Hong Kong where they can't
achieve anything meaningful, but are forced to pay for an extra night of
accomodation.
CX offers daytime flights departing HKG to Australia at lunchtime - they can make it work profitably!
It's a combination of schedules and this peculiar belief that Australian airlines have that everyone must arrive in Australia at dawn! It's as though it's some religious rule that everyone must descend on Australia at 6am.
I much prefer an afternoon or night time arrival into Australia so I can go home and go to bed for a good sleep.
Nope. I've seen this argument rehashed many times on AusBT and beyond, without success.
CX offer four flights a day from HKG to SYD, and three of those are evening departures. That's quite revealing, isn't it?
CX have saturated the evening timeslot (being that it's the most popular time) and now they have the luxury of adding a fourth flight at some other time of day. So clearly it's not some "peculiar belief" on the part of Australian airlines, it's carriers and their operations planners responding to market forces, which clearly dictate that service demand occurs in the evening. It's simple economics.
In addition to the very valid points I've made above, I'd also add that it simply makes sense for business travelers to arrive in Asian destinations in the afternoon, have some dinner, and get a proper night's sleep in a hotel, and then launch fresh into the next business day. Not many business pax would want to fly to Asia overnight and have to front up to meetings groggy and operating on minimal sleep. With respect, it sounds like you enjoy a night time arrival into Australia, because it's no big deal for you to waste an entire day in the air. That's not typical behaviour airlines expect from busier travellers, and it shows in their service planning.
I did QF52 SIN-BNE recently in 5A. I got a total of 3 hours sleep. The flight is simply not long enough to get a decent length of sleep. SQ offers day flights in both directions which has kept us happy since 2002 in both classes.
Well, living in Singapore I’d say more daytime to Australia would be welcome. Am captive as OWE and there are no one world options available unless very early and via HKG or KUL Only direct option now being SQ, or LCC.
Company has whY only policy, consequently I have zero interest in flying overnight anywhere. So no QF or BA to Australia for me.
Flyman
Flyman
QFP
Member since 22 Jan 2013
Total posts 89
Hi everyone,
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highflyer
highflyer
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 10 Apr 2012
Total posts 186
I think it usually has to do with maximising connectivity for onward flights to US/Europe.
Dredgy
Dredgy
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 02 Apr 2017
Total posts 180
Doesn't really phase me since I'm not strongly brand loyal. If I have to/want to take a day flight, I'll fly any airline that offers it.
rwSydney
rwSydney
British Airways - Executive Club
Member since 23 Mar 2018
Total posts 48
I think it’s actually more to do with airline schedules for the Australia-based airlines.
GBRGB
GBRGB
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 21 Jan 2014
Total posts 292
Because Australia has a sheep mentality, not just airlines but across most businesses in Australia its a case of following the flock, tweak it a little to make it look different, undercut the price by 2%, but essentially offer the same thing as everyone else.
sid
sid
Member since 07 Jan 2011
Total posts 205
I quite enjoyed the Thai 747 service from Sydney at 10am. The 7-9 hour return overnight flights from Asia are irritating as it's almost impossible for me to get a good sleep on them. Meal service takes 2+ hours and then another 1.5 hours before we land.
ausJCP
ausJCP
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 28 Aug 2014
Total posts 132
I don't think the loads would be there for earlier departures, it's just not really what the market wants e.g. a midday flight out of Hong Kong really just gives pax one useless day in Hong Kong where they can't achieve anything meaningful, but are forced to pay for an extra night of accomodation. It also doesn't allow inbound international connections a sufficient window to arrive at these Asian hubs in time to make the onward journey home to Australia.
The current flight timetable is actually a bit of a symphony of efficiency, if you think about it. Having your Asia flights arrive at similar times in the morning offers all kinds of wonderful time, money and efficiency shortcuts for the airlines here in Australia.
The flight timetables are a product of market forces, and they (QF/VA) really have this nailed down to the best possible configuration without overcatering and having half-empty planes in the sky.
ausJCP
ausJCP
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 28 Aug 2014
Total posts 132
Hey Dredgy. Out of interest, what status do you hold with Oneworld / Sky Team / Star Alliance ? Do you think your status level would be affected if you did have a stronger brand loyalty one way or the other? (Just curious to know the rationale, no judgment!) Cheers!
mamunr
mamunr
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 18 Apr 2018
Total posts 2
As part of the broader business model for VA and QF, flights arriving in the morning can easily connect to their domestic/Tasman network. As mentioned by another posted previously, evening departures also favour the business traveller to get a full day of work done.
Chris C.
Chris C.
Member since 24 Apr 2012
Total posts 1,116
I quite like the overnight flights from Asia - means I can spend a full day wherever I am, head to the airport at the end of the day for dinner in the lounge, get on board and go straight to sleep, avoiding the need to stay awake for a couple of hours on board for a meal, because I've just eaten.
I'm not fussed about waking up early before landing for a bite of breakfast, either: I'd rather get the extra sleep and just eat something when I get home. (Kudos to the cabin crew on a recent Cathay Pacific flight though, who woke me up just in time to get dressed before the seatbelt light came on, and offered me a latte and croissant before touchdown.)
On the other hand, if I take a daytime flight home from Asia, it usually means an early start, and by extension, means I'm paying for an extra hotel night without getting much 'extra' time in the city... instead of paying for that night, I pay as well fly home the evening prior, even if on a midnight flight after dinner or drinks in the city.
John Phelan
John Phelan
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 28 Oct 2011
Total posts 261
CX offers daytime flights departing HKG to Australia at lunchtime - they can make it work profitably!
Himeno
Himeno
Member since 12 Dec 2012
Total posts 295
CX offers daytime flights departing HKG to Australia at lunchtime - they can make it work profitably!
I would also like to be able to fly during the day so I can get to home/hotel in late afternoon/early evening.
It would be nice if QF would have a day and night option in each direction, at least to some airports (Singapore, Tokyo and Hong Kong would be a good start). They could do what JAL has done with their SYD/MEL timetable and have BNE-NRT night north, day south and MEL-NRT day north, night south.
ausJCP
ausJCP
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 28 Aug 2014
Total posts 132
CX offers daytime flights departing HKG to Australia at lunchtime - they can make it work profitably!
Nope. I've seen this argument rehashed many times on AusBT and beyond, without success.
CX offer four flights a day from HKG to SYD, and three of those are evening departures. That's quite revealing, isn't it?
CX have saturated the evening timeslot (being that it's the most popular time) and now they have the luxury of adding a fourth flight at some other time of day. So clearly it's not some "peculiar belief" on the part of Australian airlines, it's carriers and their operations planners responding to market forces, which clearly dictate that service demand occurs in the evening. It's simple economics.
In addition to the very valid points I've made above, I'd also add that it simply makes sense for business travelers to arrive in Asian destinations in the afternoon, have some dinner, and get a proper night's sleep in a hotel, and then launch fresh into the next business day. Not many business pax would want to fly to Asia overnight and have to front up to meetings groggy and operating on minimal sleep. With respect, it sounds like you enjoy a night time arrival into Australia, because it's no big deal for you to waste an entire day in the air. That's not typical behaviour airlines expect from busier travellers, and it shows in their service planning.
ian goodwin
ian goodwin
Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer
Member since 14 Oct 2016
Total posts 1
I did QF52 SIN-BNE recently in 5A. I got a total of 3 hours sleep. The flight is simply not long enough to get a decent length of sleep. SQ offers day flights in both directions which has kept us happy since 2002 in both classes.
Hotcat1970
Hotcat1970
Member since 24 Apr 2018
Total posts 2
Well, living in Singapore I’d say more daytime to Australia would be welcome. Am captive as OWE and there are no one world options available unless very early and via HKG or KUL Only direct option now being SQ, or LCC.