Hi, I have been wondering why not one carrier has taken their A380 to the South American market. If Africa can have A380s then why not South America? Any answer will be appreciated, cheers!
Not sure by the looks of it. North America-based airlines use 777, 767, 330 and Dreamliner aircraft. Look at Brazil - most of the country is densely rainforest covered.
Great question indeed. It is probably true that the Qantas 747 to Santiago is the largest passenger aircraft that operates to or within the whole of South America.
South America has lots of small airlines and until recently (LAN/TAM) no big ones. This is partly because as a continent it has surprisingly poor interactions between the various countries. If you go to Chile for instance you will find great choices to fly within the nation, but bugger all if you want to go to a neighbouring country, and then only in an A321 or 737. Argentina is worse. So despite the distances across that amazing landmass the airlines are stunted in size and limited in frequency. Most people catch the bus.
Not sure why the connections with the rest of the world don't beget an A380 service. Most European traffic gets funnelled through Madrid. But then there are a multitude of destinations, so unlike Australia, where everything gets sent to or starts from Sydney, in South America there is Rio, BA, Sao Paulo, Santiago, Bogota, Quito, Lima. None of them works as an effective hub, although Santiago works pretty well for Aussies and Kiwis. Lots of destinations all wanting direct flights works against big planes maybe.
Not necessarily. BA and Lufthansa put their B747s and B748s to Buenos Aires and Brazil in peak seasons. But yes the majority of traffic to and from South Africa comprise of twinjets.
i am sure than LAN would disagree with some of your post above. Whilst SCL is their home base, LIM acts as an effective and efficient hub for many of their intra South American services - and as they introduce the vaunted B787 into their fleet, many of the B767's will eventually be phased out. In ways, South American routes out of SCL/LIM are similar to QF/VA in Australia in that they are 2-6 hour flights where you wouldn't expect to see an A380 being used economically.
It's a shame because Brazil is a rapidly growing economy. I believe Lufthansa operates 747-8s to Rio and sao Paulo but that's about it. I expect Emirates or LH to make a move with the A380s sometime soon.
Well I do know that Brazil has banned A380s to its cities primarily because none of them are currently upgraded to handle it. Another reason could be that there isn't an aviation hub like you would find in Dubai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Los Angeles for example that could feed passengers through to small cities, although Santiago would be the closest thing.
Santiago isn't a very good location for a hub because it's not close to anything (except us). Most pax are coming from North America or Europe and would need to backtrack a long distance.
And unfortunately Chile is one of the few non-basket-case economies on the continent. Every other country seems to go "Hey! Let's try that socialism thing again that screwed up our country last time" every fifteen years or so.
It's important to note that the bulk of traffic to South America comes from North & Central America (ie. Canada, USA and Mexico). Since this traffic flow is north-south, it it generally in similar timezone(s) where frequency tends to lend itself better, rather than consolidation on larger 4 engine widebodies.
Naturally, Europe-South America (like South Pacific-South America) tends towards the 'consolidation' model, which is why you see the likes of QF using B747-400/ER's and BA/LH doing the same thing. The major European market to South America is dominated by IB (Iberia) through MAD/BCN .. and since IB does not yet have any A380's, they also employ a somewhat odd overnight frequency model which has traditionally relied on a mix of B747's (now effectively retired) and A340's. Airlines such as TAP and Swiss have smaller market shares. The only other A380 operator (Air France) has a comprehensive South American route network, but does not really dominate any of their city pairs from CDG - hence, AF's A380's get allocated to premium destinations elsewhere.
It is highly possible that we will eventually see EK move A380's onto the GRU/GIG Brazillian market, with maybe a 'tag-on' to EZE (Buenos Aires), but it seems not to yet be a high priority for EK just yet. And with QF expanding services to SCL consistently - who knows, maybe some years down the track we might even see an A380 rotation on the SYD-SCL city pair. ETOPS is still in play, as far as air Services Australia is concerned (although the B787 might modify that attitude eventually).
RaptorNation158
RaptorNation158
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Why are there no A380s in South America?
Hi, I have been wondering why not one carrier has taken their A380 to the South American market. If Africa can have A380s then why not South America? Any answer will be appreciated, cheers!
lind26
lind26
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What a great question!
Shoudy Chen
Shoudy Chen
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Not sure by the looks of it. North America-based airlines use 777, 767, 330 and Dreamliner aircraft. Look at Brazil - most of the country is densely rainforest covered.
Fonga
Fonga
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Total posts 61
Great question indeed. It is probably true that the Qantas 747 to Santiago is the largest passenger aircraft that operates to or within the whole of South America.
South America has lots of small airlines and until recently (LAN/TAM) no big ones. This is partly because as a continent it has surprisingly poor interactions between the various countries. If you go to Chile for instance you will find great choices to fly within the nation, but bugger all if you want to go to a neighbouring country, and then only in an A321 or 737. Argentina is worse. So despite the distances across that amazing landmass the airlines are stunted in size and limited in frequency. Most people catch the bus.
Not sure why the connections with the rest of the world don't beget an A380 service. Most European traffic gets funnelled through Madrid. But then there are a multitude of destinations, so unlike Australia, where everything gets sent to or starts from Sydney, in South America there is Rio, BA, Sao Paulo, Santiago, Bogota, Quito, Lima. None of them works as an effective hub, although Santiago works pretty well for Aussies and Kiwis. Lots of destinations all wanting direct flights works against big planes maybe.
Jedinak K
Jedinak K
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Not necessarily. BA and Lufthansa put their B747s and B748s to Buenos Aires and Brazil in peak seasons. But yes the majority of traffic to and from South Africa comprise of twinjets.
Jedinak K
Jedinak K
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*America
Speak_
Speak_
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KLM also fly 747s to South America
kimshep
kimshep
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i am sure than LAN would disagree with some of your post above. Whilst SCL is their home base, LIM acts as an effective and efficient hub for many of their intra South American services - and as they introduce the vaunted B787 into their fleet, many of the B767's will eventually be phased out. In ways, South American routes out of SCL/LIM are similar to QF/VA in Australia in that they are 2-6 hour flights where you wouldn't expect to see an A380 being used economically.
msport2012
msport2012
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I Thought Aerolineas fly/opperate the A340-500's? Also I beleive that was the jet flying to SYD when they flew here.
ILIKEPLANES101
ILIKEPLANES101
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Rishi is asking about A380's not A340's and Aerlineas only used the A340-200/300 not the -500.
riley
riley
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I think Martin was responding to the twin engine comment. Becuase he's correct, A340 type's are operated by Aeronlineas
somethingy23
somethingy23
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It's a shame because Brazil is a rapidly growing economy. I believe Lufthansa operates 747-8s to Rio and sao Paulo but that's about it. I expect Emirates or LH to make a move with the A380s sometime soon.
Jedinak K
Jedinak K
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Total posts 105
Well I do know that Brazil has banned A380s to its cities primarily because none of them are currently upgraded to handle it. Another reason could be that there isn't an aviation hub like you would find in Dubai, Singapore, Hong Kong, Los Angeles for example that could feed passengers through to small cities, although Santiago would be the closest thing.
Hugo
Hugo
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Santiago isn't a very good location for a hub because it's not close to anything (except us). Most pax are coming from North America or Europe and would need to backtrack a long distance.
And unfortunately Chile is one of the few non-basket-case economies on the continent. Every other country seems to go "Hey! Let's try that socialism thing again that screwed up our country last time" every fifteen years or so.
kimshep
kimshep
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Member since 11 Oct 2014
Total posts 412
It's important to note that the bulk of traffic to South America comes from North & Central America (ie. Canada, USA and Mexico). Since this traffic flow is north-south, it it generally in similar timezone(s) where frequency tends to lend itself better, rather than consolidation on larger 4 engine widebodies.
Naturally, Europe-South America (like South Pacific-South America) tends towards the 'consolidation' model, which is why you see the likes of QF using B747-400/ER's and BA/LH doing the same thing. The major European market to South America is dominated by IB (Iberia) through MAD/BCN .. and since IB does not yet have any A380's, they also employ a somewhat odd overnight frequency model which has traditionally relied on a mix of B747's (now effectively retired) and A340's. Airlines such as TAP and Swiss have smaller market shares. The only other A380 operator (Air France) has a comprehensive South American route network, but does not really dominate any of their city pairs from CDG - hence, AF's A380's get allocated to premium destinations elsewhere.
It is highly possible that we will eventually see EK move A380's onto the GRU/GIG Brazillian market, with maybe a 'tag-on' to EZE (Buenos Aires), but it seems not to yet be a high priority for EK just yet. And with QF expanding services to SCL consistently - who knows, maybe some years down the track we might even see an A380 rotation on the SYD-SCL city pair. ETOPS is still in play, as far as air Services Australia is concerned (although the B787 might modify that attitude eventually).