Interstate travel restrictions

79 replies

Richard W

Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer

Member since 12 Apr 2017

Total posts 80

Originally Posted by patrickk

Originally Posted by regular flyer

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by Daco

The world is opening up we aren't. We were the envy of the world. Australia will be a laughing stock if we don't open up or start a plan. I like what Singapore is doing when they reach their vaccination target- TREAT IT LIKE THE FLU https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/singapores-surprising-new-plan-to-live-with-covid-revealed/news-story/52fa2c29252daeb4a3c634e1658f6901

Australia's approach is embarrassing for a developed country in the so-called "free world" to say the least. Locking down entire cities or states over 1 or 2 new "cases" and imposing a hard lockdown over 100 a day, which is truly nothing. How many individuals were diagnosed with the flu on average, prior to 2020? Did we lockdown then? No.

Malaysia has proven that hard lockdowns just don't work. Thailand is claiming to have implemented a hard lockdown with travel restrictions - but all they've actually done is suspend public transport connecting provinces (including most domestic flights) and set-up checkpoints to restrict travel during the newly enacted curfew hours of 9pm-4am (in effect until August 2) in 13 provinces; during the day there are no checkpoints and vehicles pass freely. Markets and many types of stores are still open. Increased testing and samples tested at high CT values are producing what appears to be a "worrying trend" of "increased infections", but in reality the vast majority are of asymptomatic individuals. Southern Vietnam is under a more stringent lockdown and recording 5000 or so daily "infections" and still on an upward trend.

Even so, with 13,000 daily so-called "infections", Thailand's restrictions are significantly less stringent than those of NSW with it's paltry 100 daily cases. I thought Thailand was the laughing stock of the world but that title now clearly goes to Australia.


We may not be ready to open fully with complete disregard to restrictions, but the current condition of lockdown of half of Australia is laughable. As soon as the lockdowns end, we will be back with the virus spreading. Even with 80% vaccinated (unlikely) the virus will spread. So what are we locking down for? Places like Hong Kong have never locked down, they just control things simply and have very few deaths. We are so poorly served by our politicians at all levels, it's a disgrace.

on Sky news last night, they said someone has calculated that by 12 Nov, everyone who wants a shot will be vaccinated, so all borders should be fully open by then at the latest, IF they can't fast track jabs. Think many international airlines may not come back to Australia straight away, so we'll have massive pent up demand, but also a shortage of supply, so fares may skyrocket.

Regular Florida with much the same population as Australia during their last winter and no regulation was 200 deaths a day and thousands of cases and this was pre delta variant, which is leading to new lockdowns almost everywhere. All I can say is be careful for what you wish for.


I don't see many people advocating no regulations. Simple controls. Lockdowns have caused much misery around the world but reality has shown that the virus will return. So we either lockdown forever or find a different way. Vaccination will not stop the virus. Vaccination is just part of some controls which should not include lockdowns of interstate travel. The uncomfortable truth for everyone is that hundreds of people die each day. This virus is just a part of that. Protect the elderly and sick, the rest of us can get on with our lives.

TheFreqFlyer

Member since 05 Oct 2017

Total posts 76

Originally Posted by regular flyer

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by Daco

The world is opening up we aren't. We were the envy of the world. Australia will be a laughing stock if we don't open up or start a plan. I like what Singapore is doing when they reach their vaccination target- TREAT IT LIKE THE FLU https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/singapores-surprising-new-plan-to-live-with-covid-revealed/news-story/52fa2c29252daeb4a3c634e1658f6901

Australia's approach is embarrassing for a developed country in the so-called "free world" to say the least. Locking down entire cities or states over 1 or 2 new "cases" and imposing a hard lockdown over 100 a day, which is truly nothing. How many individuals were diagnosed with the flu on average, prior to 2020? Did we lockdown then? No.

Malaysia has proven that hard lockdowns just don't work. Thailand is claiming to have implemented a hard lockdown with travel restrictions - but all they've actually done is suspend public transport connecting provinces (including most domestic flights) and set-up checkpoints to restrict travel during the newly enacted curfew hours of 9pm-4am (in effect until August 2) in 13 provinces; during the day there are no checkpoints and vehicles pass freely. Markets and many types of stores are still open. Increased testing and samples tested at high CT values are producing what appears to be a "worrying trend" of "increased infections", but in reality the vast majority are of asymptomatic individuals. Southern Vietnam is under a more stringent lockdown and recording 5000 or so daily "infections" and still on an upward trend.

Even so, with 13,000 daily so-called "infections", Thailand's restrictions are significantly less stringent than those of NSW with it's paltry 100 daily cases. I thought Thailand was the laughing stock of the world but that title now clearly goes to Australia.


We may not be ready to open fully with complete disregard to restrictions, but the current condition of lockdown of half of Australia is laughable. As soon as the lockdowns end, we will be back with the virus spreading. Even with 80% vaccinated (unlikely) the virus will spread. So what are we locking down for? Places like Hong Kong have never locked down, they just control things simply and have very few deaths. We are so poorly served by our politicians at all levels, it's a disgrace.

on Sky news last night, they said someone has calculated that by 12 Nov, everyone who wants a shot will be vaccinated, so all borders should be fully open by then at the latest, IF they can't fast track jabs. Think many international airlines may not come back to Australia straight away, so we'll have massive pent up demand, but also a shortage of supply, so fares may skyrocket.

I hope you're right but I doubt Australia will be re-opening that quickly. What I can see them doing by then is allowing home quarantine initially for vaccinated and low to medium risk countries only, which will be followed by a possible expansion of quarantine free travel (with no vaccine requirement) with several Pacific island nations by March or April 2022 and a possible travel bubble with a testing and/or vaccination requirement with Singapore/Taiwan/Hong Kong also by around that time.

July 2022 marks when borders could first swing open to the entire world.


TheFreqFlyer

Member since 05 Oct 2017

Total posts 76

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by Daco

The world is opening up we aren't. We were the envy of the world. Australia will be a laughing stock if we don't open up or start a plan. I like what Singapore is doing when they reach their vaccination target- TREAT IT LIKE THE FLU https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/singapores-surprising-new-plan-to-live-with-covid-revealed/news-story/52fa2c29252daeb4a3c634e1658f6901

Australia's approach is embarrassing for a developed country in the so-called "free world" to say the least. Locking down entire cities or states over 1 or 2 new "cases" and imposing a hard lockdown over 100 a day, which is truly nothing. How many individuals were diagnosed with the flu on average, prior to 2020? Did we lockdown then? No.

Malaysia has proven that hard lockdowns just don't work. Thailand is claiming to have implemented a hard lockdown with travel restrictions - but all they've actually done is suspend public transport connecting provinces (including most domestic flights) and set-up checkpoints to restrict travel during the newly enacted curfew hours of 9pm-4am (in effect until August 2) in 13 provinces; during the day there are no checkpoints and vehicles pass freely. Markets and many types of stores are still open. Increased testing and samples tested at high CT values are producing what appears to be a "worrying trend" of "increased infections", but in reality the vast majority are of asymptomatic individuals. Southern Vietnam is under a more stringent lockdown and recording 5000 or so daily "infections" and still on an upward trend.

Even so, with 13,000 daily so-called "infections", Thailand's restrictions are significantly less stringent than those of NSW with it's paltry 100 daily cases. I thought Thailand was the laughing stock of the world but that title now clearly goes to Australia.


We may not be ready to open fully with complete disregard to restrictions, but the current condition of lockdown of half of Australia is laughable. As soon as the lockdowns end, we will be back with the virus spreading. Even with 80% vaccinated (unlikely) the virus will spread. So what are we locking down for? Places like Hong Kong have never locked down, they just control things simply and have very few deaths. We are so poorly served by our politicians at all levels, it's a disgrace.

I'm pretty sure Hong Kong went through several periods of restrictions. Perhaps that wasn't a proper "lockdown" but several types of businesses were shut and/or had reduced capacity limits. There seemed to be 4 waves but now there are almost no cases recorded, which is in contrast to the almost simultaneous daily highs being recorded in SE Asian countries including Indonesia (now recording numbers significantly higher than India), Malaysia, Thailand, Myanmar, Vietnam and to a lesser extent Cambodia and Laos. Even Singapore is recording it's highest daily domestic case totals in around 10 months.

Richard W

Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer

Member since 12 Apr 2017

Total posts 80

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by Daco

The world is opening up we aren't. We were the envy of the world. Australia will be a laughing stock if we don't open up or start a plan. I like what Singapore is doing when they reach their vaccination target- TREAT IT LIKE THE FLU https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/singapores-surprising-new-plan-to-live-with-covid-revealed/news-story/52fa2c29252daeb4a3c634e1658f6901

Australia's approach is embarrassing for a developed country in the so-called "free world" to say the least. Locking down entire cities or states over 1 or 2 new "cases" and imposing a hard lockdown over 100 a day, which is truly nothing. How many individuals were diagnosed with the flu on average, prior to 2020? Did we lockdown then? No.

Malaysia has proven that hard lockdowns just don't work. Thailand is claiming to have implemented a hard lockdown with travel restrictions - but all they've actually done is suspend public transport connecting provinces (including most domestic flights) and set-up checkpoints to restrict travel during the newly enacted curfew hours of 9pm-4am (in effect until August 2) in 13 provinces; during the day there are no checkpoints and vehicles pass freely. Markets and many types of stores are still open. Increased testing and samples tested at high CT values are producing what appears to be a "worrying trend" of "increased infections", but in reality the vast majority are of asymptomatic individuals. Southern Vietnam is under a more stringent lockdown and recording 5000 or so daily "infections" and still on an upward trend.

Even so, with 13,000 daily so-called "infections", Thailand's restrictions are significantly less stringent than those of NSW with it's paltry 100 daily cases. I thought Thailand was the laughing stock of the world but that title now clearly goes to Australia.


We may not be ready to open fully with complete disregard to restrictions, but the current condition of lockdown of half of Australia is laughable. As soon as the lockdowns end, we will be back with the virus spreading. Even with 80% vaccinated (unlikely) the virus will spread. So what are we locking down for? Places like Hong Kong have never locked down, they just control things simply and have very few deaths. We are so poorly served by our politicians at all levels, it's a disgrace.

I'm pretty sure Hong Kong went through several periods of restrictions. Perhaps that wasn't a proper "lockdown" but several types of businesses were shut and/or had reduced capacity limits. There seemed to be 4 waves but now there are almost no cases recorded, which is in contrast to the almost simultaneous daily highs being recorded in SE Asian countries including Indonesia (now recording numbers significantly higher than India), Malaysia, Thailand, Myanmar, Vietnam and to a lesser extent Cambodia and Laos. Even Singapore is recording it's highest daily domestic case totals in around 10 months.

If we keep focussing on the number of cases each day, we will never open borders. Counting and reporting case numbers causes hysteria and fear. Hong Kong has had plenty of restrictions but never a blanket lockdown. People are free to leave or enter as they wish, as long as they fulfil whatever quarantine procedures are asked of them on return. What a great approach! Treating people as adults and not stopping free movement. I have just returned from 3 months in Hong Kong and it's a breath of fresh air compared to our state premiers. And don't forget very low deaths, all elderly or with underlying health conditions. The other nations you mentioned have had far stricter lockdowns. What did that achieve for them?

Richard W

Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer

Member since 12 Apr 2017

Total posts 80

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by regular flyer

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by Daco

The world is opening up we aren't. We were the envy of the world. Australia will be a laughing stock if we don't open up or start a plan. I like what Singapore is doing when they reach their vaccination target- TREAT IT LIKE THE FLU https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/singapores-surprising-new-plan-to-live-with-covid-revealed/news-story/52fa2c29252daeb4a3c634e1658f6901

Australia's approach is embarrassing for a developed country in the so-called "free world" to say the least. Locking down entire cities or states over 1 or 2 new "cases" and imposing a hard lockdown over 100 a day, which is truly nothing. How many individuals were diagnosed with the flu on average, prior to 2020? Did we lockdown then? No.

Malaysia has proven that hard lockdowns just don't work. Thailand is claiming to have implemented a hard lockdown with travel restrictions - but all they've actually done is suspend public transport connecting provinces (including most domestic flights) and set-up checkpoints to restrict travel during the newly enacted curfew hours of 9pm-4am (in effect until August 2) in 13 provinces; during the day there are no checkpoints and vehicles pass freely. Markets and many types of stores are still open. Increased testing and samples tested at high CT values are producing what appears to be a "worrying trend" of "increased infections", but in reality the vast majority are of asymptomatic individuals. Southern Vietnam is under a more stringent lockdown and recording 5000 or so daily "infections" and still on an upward trend.

Even so, with 13,000 daily so-called "infections", Thailand's restrictions are significantly less stringent than those of NSW with it's paltry 100 daily cases. I thought Thailand was the laughing stock of the world but that title now clearly goes to Australia.


We may not be ready to open fully with complete disregard to restrictions, but the current condition of lockdown of half of Australia is laughable. As soon as the lockdowns end, we will be back with the virus spreading. Even with 80% vaccinated (unlikely) the virus will spread. So what are we locking down for? Places like Hong Kong have never locked down, they just control things simply and have very few deaths. We are so poorly served by our politicians at all levels, it's a disgrace.

on Sky news last night, they said someone has calculated that by 12 Nov, everyone who wants a shot will be vaccinated, so all borders should be fully open by then at the latest, IF they can't fast track jabs. Think many international airlines may not come back to Australia straight away, so we'll have massive pent up demand, but also a shortage of supply, so fares may skyrocket.

I hope you're right but I doubt Australia will be re-opening that quickly. What I can see them doing by then is allowing home quarantine initially for vaccinated and low to medium risk countries only, which will be followed by a possible expansion of quarantine free travel (with no vaccine requirement) with several Pacific island nations by March or April 2022 and a possible travel bubble with a testing and/or vaccination requirement with Singapore/Taiwan/Hong Kong also by around that time.

July 2022 marks when borders could first swing open to the entire world.


The opening of international borders will definitely be gradual. The first step should be to allow Australians to leave if they wish. Locking us in our own country is barbaric. Controlling the numbers coming back in is ok, but don't stop us from leaving. The first big question is when and what, will trigger the end to state borders closing to each other? I think 50% vaccinated should mean no border closures or at least not to fully vaccinated people. This will cause uproar and legal cases about vaccinated people getting preferential treatment but so far every legal case brought against governments during the pandemic has gone nowhere, so it is likely to be introduced.

Travellz

Member since 26 Mar 2020

Total posts 31

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by regular flyer

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by Daco

The world is opening up we aren't. We were the envy of the world. Australia will be a laughing stock if we don't open up or start a plan. I like what Singapore is doing when they reach their vaccination target- TREAT IT LIKE THE FLU https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/singapores-surprising-new-plan-to-live-with-covid-revealed/news-story/52fa2c29252daeb4a3c634e1658f6901

Australia's approach is embarrassing for a developed country in the so-called "free world" to say the least. Locking down entire cities or states over 1 or 2 new "cases" and imposing a hard lockdown over 100 a day, which is truly nothing. How many individuals were diagnosed with the flu on average, prior to 2020? Did we lockdown then? No.

Malaysia has proven that hard lockdowns just don't work. Thailand is claiming to have implemented a hard lockdown with travel restrictions - but all they've actually done is suspend public transport connecting provinces (including most domestic flights) and set-up checkpoints to restrict travel during the newly enacted curfew hours of 9pm-4am (in effect until August 2) in 13 provinces; during the day there are no checkpoints and vehicles pass freely. Markets and many types of stores are still open. Increased testing and samples tested at high CT values are producing what appears to be a "worrying trend" of "increased infections", but in reality the vast majority are of asymptomatic individuals. Southern Vietnam is under a more stringent lockdown and recording 5000 or so daily "infections" and still on an upward trend.

Even so, with 13,000 daily so-called "infections", Thailand's restrictions are significantly less stringent than those of NSW with it's paltry 100 daily cases. I thought Thailand was the laughing stock of the world but that title now clearly goes to Australia.


We may not be ready to open fully with complete disregard to restrictions, but the current condition of lockdown of half of Australia is laughable. As soon as the lockdowns end, we will be back with the virus spreading. Even with 80% vaccinated (unlikely) the virus will spread. So what are we locking down for? Places like Hong Kong have never locked down, they just control things simply and have very few deaths. We are so poorly served by our politicians at all levels, it's a disgrace.

on Sky news last night, they said someone has calculated that by 12 Nov, everyone who wants a shot will be vaccinated, so all borders should be fully open by then at the latest, IF they can't fast track jabs. Think many international airlines may not come back to Australia straight away, so we'll have massive pent up demand, but also a shortage of supply, so fares may skyrocket.

I hope you're right but I doubt Australia will be re-opening that quickly. What I can see them doing by then is allowing home quarantine initially for vaccinated and low to medium risk countries only, which will be followed by a possible expansion of quarantine free travel (with no vaccine requirement) with several Pacific island nations by March or April 2022 and a possible travel bubble with a testing and/or vaccination requirement with Singapore/Taiwan/Hong Kong also by around that time.

July 2022 marks when borders could first swing open to the entire world.


The opening of international borders will definitely be gradual. The first step should be to allow Australians to leave if they wish. Locking us in our own country is barbaric. Controlling the numbers coming back in is ok, but don't stop us from leaving. The first big question is when and what, will trigger the end to state borders closing to each other? I think 50% vaccinated should mean no border closures or at least not to fully vaccinated people. This will cause uproar and legal cases about vaccinated people getting preferential treatment but so far every legal case brought against governments during the pandemic has gone nowhere, so it is likely to be introduced.

I think we just have to wait - public patience is slowly starting to wear thin and once a good majority of us have been vaccinated I think is when you will find that the majority of Australians will no longer accept being locked down and it will start to become politically unpopular

regular flyer

Member since 13 May 2020

Total posts 29

Originally Posted by Travellz

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by regular flyer

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by Daco

The world is opening up we aren't. We were the envy of the world. Australia will be a laughing stock if we don't open up or start a plan. I like what Singapore is doing when they reach their vaccination target- TREAT IT LIKE THE FLU https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/singapores-surprising-new-plan-to-live-with-covid-revealed/news-story/52fa2c29252daeb4a3c634e1658f6901

Australia's approach is embarrassing for a developed country in the so-called "free world" to say the least. Locking down entire cities or states over 1 or 2 new "cases" and imposing a hard lockdown over 100 a day, which is truly nothing. How many individuals were diagnosed with the flu on average, prior to 2020? Did we lockdown then? No.

Malaysia has proven that hard lockdowns just don't work. Thailand is claiming to have implemented a hard lockdown with travel restrictions - but all they've actually done is suspend public transport connecting provinces (including most domestic flights) and set-up checkpoints to restrict travel during the newly enacted curfew hours of 9pm-4am (in effect until August 2) in 13 provinces; during the day there are no checkpoints and vehicles pass freely. Markets and many types of stores are still open. Increased testing and samples tested at high CT values are producing what appears to be a "worrying trend" of "increased infections", but in reality the vast majority are of asymptomatic individuals. Southern Vietnam is under a more stringent lockdown and recording 5000 or so daily "infections" and still on an upward trend.

Even so, with 13,000 daily so-called "infections", Thailand's restrictions are significantly less stringent than those of NSW with it's paltry 100 daily cases. I thought Thailand was the laughing stock of the world but that title now clearly goes to Australia.


We may not be ready to open fully with complete disregard to restrictions, but the current condition of lockdown of half of Australia is laughable. As soon as the lockdowns end, we will be back with the virus spreading. Even with 80% vaccinated (unlikely) the virus will spread. So what are we locking down for? Places like Hong Kong have never locked down, they just control things simply and have very few deaths. We are so poorly served by our politicians at all levels, it's a disgrace.

on Sky news last night, they said someone has calculated that by 12 Nov, everyone who wants a shot will be vaccinated, so all borders should be fully open by then at the latest, IF they can't fast track jabs. Think many international airlines may not come back to Australia straight away, so we'll have massive pent up demand, but also a shortage of supply, so fares may skyrocket.

I hope you're right but I doubt Australia will be re-opening that quickly. What I can see them doing by then is allowing home quarantine initially for vaccinated and low to medium risk countries only, which will be followed by a possible expansion of quarantine free travel (with no vaccine requirement) with several Pacific island nations by March or April 2022 and a possible travel bubble with a testing and/or vaccination requirement with Singapore/Taiwan/Hong Kong also by around that time.

July 2022 marks when borders could first swing open to the entire world.


The opening of international borders will definitely be gradual. The first step should be to allow Australians to leave if they wish. Locking us in our own country is barbaric. Controlling the numbers coming back in is ok, but don't stop us from leaving. The first big question is when and what, will trigger the end to state borders closing to each other? I think 50% vaccinated should mean no border closures or at least not to fully vaccinated people. This will cause uproar and legal cases about vaccinated people getting preferential treatment but so far every legal case brought against governments during the pandemic has gone nowhere, so it is likely to be introduced.

I think we just have to wait - public patience is slowly starting to wear thin and once a good majority of us have been vaccinated I think is when you will find that the majority of Australians will no longer accept being locked down and it will start to become politically unpopular

it's unpopular now with most of the population, now that they finally realise the healthy don't die from corona !!!

Surprised politicians haven't been targets of assasinations.


Richard W

Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer

Member since 12 Apr 2017

Total posts 80

Originally Posted by regular flyer

Originally Posted by Travellz

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by regular flyer

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by Daco

The world is opening up we aren't. We were the envy of the world. Australia will be a laughing stock if we don't open up or start a plan. I like what Singapore is doing when they reach their vaccination target- TREAT IT LIKE THE FLU https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/singapores-surprising-new-plan-to-live-with-covid-revealed/news-story/52fa2c29252daeb4a3c634e1658f6901

Australia's approach is embarrassing for a developed country in the so-called "free world" to say the least. Locking down entire cities or states over 1 or 2 new "cases" and imposing a hard lockdown over 100 a day, which is truly nothing. How many individuals were diagnosed with the flu on average, prior to 2020? Did we lockdown then? No.

Malaysia has proven that hard lockdowns just don't work. Thailand is claiming to have implemented a hard lockdown with travel restrictions - but all they've actually done is suspend public transport connecting provinces (including most domestic flights) and set-up checkpoints to restrict travel during the newly enacted curfew hours of 9pm-4am (in effect until August 2) in 13 provinces; during the day there are no checkpoints and vehicles pass freely. Markets and many types of stores are still open. Increased testing and samples tested at high CT values are producing what appears to be a "worrying trend" of "increased infections", but in reality the vast majority are of asymptomatic individuals. Southern Vietnam is under a more stringent lockdown and recording 5000 or so daily "infections" and still on an upward trend.

Even so, with 13,000 daily so-called "infections", Thailand's restrictions are significantly less stringent than those of NSW with it's paltry 100 daily cases. I thought Thailand was the laughing stock of the world but that title now clearly goes to Australia.


We may not be ready to open fully with complete disregard to restrictions, but the current condition of lockdown of half of Australia is laughable. As soon as the lockdowns end, we will be back with the virus spreading. Even with 80% vaccinated (unlikely) the virus will spread. So what are we locking down for? Places like Hong Kong have never locked down, they just control things simply and have very few deaths. We are so poorly served by our politicians at all levels, it's a disgrace.

on Sky news last night, they said someone has calculated that by 12 Nov, everyone who wants a shot will be vaccinated, so all borders should be fully open by then at the latest, IF they can't fast track jabs. Think many international airlines may not come back to Australia straight away, so we'll have massive pent up demand, but also a shortage of supply, so fares may skyrocket.

I hope you're right but I doubt Australia will be re-opening that quickly. What I can see them doing by then is allowing home quarantine initially for vaccinated and low to medium risk countries only, which will be followed by a possible expansion of quarantine free travel (with no vaccine requirement) with several Pacific island nations by March or April 2022 and a possible travel bubble with a testing and/or vaccination requirement with Singapore/Taiwan/Hong Kong also by around that time.

July 2022 marks when borders could first swing open to the entire world.


The opening of international borders will definitely be gradual. The first step should be to allow Australians to leave if they wish. Locking us in our own country is barbaric. Controlling the numbers coming back in is ok, but don't stop us from leaving. The first big question is when and what, will trigger the end to state borders closing to each other? I think 50% vaccinated should mean no border closures or at least not to fully vaccinated people. This will cause uproar and legal cases about vaccinated people getting preferential treatment but so far every legal case brought against governments during the pandemic has gone nowhere, so it is likely to be introduced.

I think we just have to wait - public patience is slowly starting to wear thin and once a good majority of us have been vaccinated I think is when you will find that the majority of Australians will no longer accept being locked down and it will start to become politically unpopular

it's unpopular now with most of the population, now that they finally realise the healthy don't die from corona !!!

Surprised politicians haven't been targets of assasinations.



The interesting thing is that while lockdowns are getting more unpopular, the media have done such an incredible hysterical manipulation of the masses, that I still see many comments particularly on The Age about the need to stay shut away from each State and Internationally because of the irrational fear that we will all die. Politicians and media know what helps them stay in power or earn money, and it's not good news stories they want. Watch how every single possible bad news story coming from the Olympics will be front page and first item news over the next few weeks, they are desperate for it to escalate in Tokyo!

patrickk

Qantas

Member since 19 Apr 2012

Total posts 667

Richard it is not the irrational fear they will die but the very rational fear they and their family will get quite sick and if you are vaccinated it is like the flu but if you are not it is much worse. Just look at current hospitalisation rates and ICU rates. And now it is not the elderly as they are vaccinated but is among the young. Early lockdowns make much more sense than late ones such as Tokyo or dare I say it Sydney where Gladys arguably waited too long.

Richard W

Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer

Member since 12 Apr 2017

Total posts 80

The only fear people have are for the actions governments will take in closing borders and locking us down. So every day the case numbers are eagerly awaited, but not from the worry about what a virus will do. There are far more deaths every day from heart disease, diabetes, cancers and for many parts of the world a lack of clean drinking water. Who is scared of this? Where are the front page or first bulletins on all these? You don't hear or see them because governments and media know it has no traction for them to highlight it.

TheFreqFlyer

Member since 05 Oct 2017

Total posts 76

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by Daco

The world is opening up we aren't. We were the envy of the world. Australia will be a laughing stock if we don't open up or start a plan. I like what Singapore is doing when they reach their vaccination target- TREAT IT LIKE THE FLU https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/singapores-surprising-new-plan-to-live-with-covid-revealed/news-story/52fa2c29252daeb4a3c634e1658f6901

Australia's approach is embarrassing for a developed country in the so-called "free world" to say the least. Locking down entire cities or states over 1 or 2 new "cases" and imposing a hard lockdown over 100 a day, which is truly nothing. How many individuals were diagnosed with the flu on average, prior to 2020? Did we lockdown then? No.

Malaysia has proven that hard lockdowns just don't work. Thailand is claiming to have implemented a hard lockdown with travel restrictions - but all they've actually done is suspend public transport connecting provinces (including most domestic flights) and set-up checkpoints to restrict travel during the newly enacted curfew hours of 9pm-4am (in effect until August 2) in 13 provinces; during the day there are no checkpoints and vehicles pass freely. Markets and many types of stores are still open. Increased testing and samples tested at high CT values are producing what appears to be a "worrying trend" of "increased infections", but in reality the vast majority are of asymptomatic individuals. Southern Vietnam is under a more stringent lockdown and recording 5000 or so daily "infections" and still on an upward trend.

Even so, with 13,000 daily so-called "infections", Thailand's restrictions are significantly less stringent than those of NSW with it's paltry 100 daily cases. I thought Thailand was the laughing stock of the world but that title now clearly goes to Australia.


We may not be ready to open fully with complete disregard to restrictions, but the current condition of lockdown of half of Australia is laughable. As soon as the lockdowns end, we will be back with the virus spreading. Even with 80% vaccinated (unlikely) the virus will spread. So what are we locking down for? Places like Hong Kong have never locked down, they just control things simply and have very few deaths. We are so poorly served by our politicians at all levels, it's a disgrace.

I'm pretty sure Hong Kong went through several periods of restrictions. Perhaps that wasn't a proper "lockdown" but several types of businesses were shut and/or had reduced capacity limits. There seemed to be 4 waves but now there are almost no cases recorded, which is in contrast to the almost simultaneous daily highs being recorded in SE Asian countries including Indonesia (now recording numbers significantly higher than India), Malaysia, Thailand, Myanmar, Vietnam and to a lesser extent Cambodia and Laos. Even Singapore is recording it's highest daily domestic case totals in around 10 months.

If we keep focussing on the number of cases each day, we will never open borders. Counting and reporting case numbers causes hysteria and fear. Hong Kong has had plenty of restrictions but never a blanket lockdown. People are free to leave or enter as they wish, as long as they fulfil whatever quarantine procedures are asked of them on return. What a great approach! Treating people as adults and not stopping free movement. I have just returned from 3 months in Hong Kong and it's a breath of fresh air compared to our state premiers. And don't forget very low deaths, all elderly or with underlying health conditions. The other nations you mentioned have had far stricter lockdowns. What did that achieve for them?

Exactly. It didn't achieve anything. Like I said - Thailand has not, despite it's pronouncements reverted back to a strict lockdown this time round (and the strictest rules only apply to 13 out of 76 provinces). What the news says and what happens in reality are two different things. Even so, the restrictions put in place have achieved nothing. The more measures are put in place, the higher the case count. Now at 13,500.

Malaysia's lockdown has been longer lasting and much stricter - only one or two persons allowed to leave the home to go shopping or for other essential reasons. Generally even higher numbers than Thailand except over the past week - currently about the same.

Freedom to leave the country (either Thailand or Malaysia) has never been restricted. Only getting back is complicated.

Hong Kong did have a 3 week hotel quarantine starting in December though (the longest quarantine in the world at the time). I understand this is now down to 1 week for vaccinated individuals, meanwhile other nations have intensified their measures (for a while, Vietnam and Singapore both imposed 3 week quarantines on most arrivals).

Singapore is now talking about a more sensible approach to manage Covid-19 going forward.


TheFreqFlyer

Member since 05 Oct 2017

Total posts 76

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by regular flyer

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by Daco

The world is opening up we aren't. We were the envy of the world. Australia will be a laughing stock if we don't open up or start a plan. I like what Singapore is doing when they reach their vaccination target- TREAT IT LIKE THE FLU https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/singapores-surprising-new-plan-to-live-with-covid-revealed/news-story/52fa2c29252daeb4a3c634e1658f6901

Australia's approach is embarrassing for a developed country in the so-called "free world" to say the least. Locking down entire cities or states over 1 or 2 new "cases" and imposing a hard lockdown over 100 a day, which is truly nothing. How many individuals were diagnosed with the flu on average, prior to 2020? Did we lockdown then? No.

Malaysia has proven that hard lockdowns just don't work. Thailand is claiming to have implemented a hard lockdown with travel restrictions - but all they've actually done is suspend public transport connecting provinces (including most domestic flights) and set-up checkpoints to restrict travel during the newly enacted curfew hours of 9pm-4am (in effect until August 2) in 13 provinces; during the day there are no checkpoints and vehicles pass freely. Markets and many types of stores are still open. Increased testing and samples tested at high CT values are producing what appears to be a "worrying trend" of "increased infections", but in reality the vast majority are of asymptomatic individuals. Southern Vietnam is under a more stringent lockdown and recording 5000 or so daily "infections" and still on an upward trend.

Even so, with 13,000 daily so-called "infections", Thailand's restrictions are significantly less stringent than those of NSW with it's paltry 100 daily cases. I thought Thailand was the laughing stock of the world but that title now clearly goes to Australia.


We may not be ready to open fully with complete disregard to restrictions, but the current condition of lockdown of half of Australia is laughable. As soon as the lockdowns end, we will be back with the virus spreading. Even with 80% vaccinated (unlikely) the virus will spread. So what are we locking down for? Places like Hong Kong have never locked down, they just control things simply and have very few deaths. We are so poorly served by our politicians at all levels, it's a disgrace.

on Sky news last night, they said someone has calculated that by 12 Nov, everyone who wants a shot will be vaccinated, so all borders should be fully open by then at the latest, IF they can't fast track jabs. Think many international airlines may not come back to Australia straight away, so we'll have massive pent up demand, but also a shortage of supply, so fares may skyrocket.

I hope you're right but I doubt Australia will be re-opening that quickly. What I can see them doing by then is allowing home quarantine initially for vaccinated and low to medium risk countries only, which will be followed by a possible expansion of quarantine free travel (with no vaccine requirement) with several Pacific island nations by March or April 2022 and a possible travel bubble with a testing and/or vaccination requirement with Singapore/Taiwan/Hong Kong also by around that time.

July 2022 marks when borders could first swing open to the entire world.


The opening of international borders will definitely be gradual. The first step should be to allow Australians to leave if they wish. Locking us in our own country is barbaric. Controlling the numbers coming back in is ok, but don't stop us from leaving. The first big question is when and what, will trigger the end to state borders closing to each other? I think 50% vaccinated should mean no border closures or at least not to fully vaccinated people. This will cause uproar and legal cases about vaccinated people getting preferential treatment but so far every legal case brought against governments during the pandemic has gone nowhere, so it is likely to be introduced.

There have been plenty of legal cases won overseas, in favour of freedom. The Portuguese high court I believe it was, ruled that PCR testing is not a valid tool to detect viral infections. A Belgian court also ruled that the Covid containment measures were "illegal" and ruled they had to be lifted within 30 days of making the judgement or else the state would be fined a certain amount per day. I could go on and on with more examples. However, in practice things are progressing slowly, and there is no telling what legal cases may be brought forward by individuals against governments in the future. Several major cases have been launched but not concluded yet.

The point though is that given a number of overseas examples of restrictions being fully or almost fully lifted (most of the USA, the UK and now even several European countries), it would be silly to think that Australians will put up with the current restrictions for much longer, especially once 40 or 50% have been vaccinated. Once this has occurred, even the unvaccinated should be granted their freedoms back, as has generally been the case in most of the USA, where about half or more of all states have banned vaccine passports and mask mandates.


patrickk

Qantas

Member since 19 Apr 2012

Total posts 667

Freq the US is still closed to Europe jus sayin…

TheFreqFlyer

Member since 05 Oct 2017

Total posts 76

Originally Posted by patrickk

Freq the US is still closed to Europe jus sayin…


I didn't mention the US being closed to Europe though. Besides, that will likely change in the months to come, especially now that the EU is about to permit Americans to enter Europe, both vaccinated and unvaccinated (the US being on the EU "green list").

Richard W

Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer

Member since 12 Apr 2017

Total posts 80

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by regular flyer

Originally Posted by Richard W

Originally Posted by TheFreqFlyer

Originally Posted by Daco

The world is opening up we aren't. We were the envy of the world. Australia will be a laughing stock if we don't open up or start a plan. I like what Singapore is doing when they reach their vaccination target- TREAT IT LIKE THE FLU https://www.news.com.au/world/asia/singapores-surprising-new-plan-to-live-with-covid-revealed/news-story/52fa2c29252daeb4a3c634e1658f6901

Australia's approach is embarrassing for a developed country in the so-called "free world" to say the least. Locking down entire cities or states over 1 or 2 new "cases" and imposing a hard lockdown over 100 a day, which is truly nothing. How many individuals were diagnosed with the flu on average, prior to 2020? Did we lockdown then? No.

Malaysia has proven that hard lockdowns just don't work. Thailand is claiming to have implemented a hard lockdown with travel restrictions - but all they've actually done is suspend public transport connecting provinces (including most domestic flights) and set-up checkpoints to restrict travel during the newly enacted curfew hours of 9pm-4am (in effect until August 2) in 13 provinces; during the day there are no checkpoints and vehicles pass freely. Markets and many types of stores are still open. Increased testing and samples tested at high CT values are producing what appears to be a "worrying trend" of "increased infections", but in reality the vast majority are of asymptomatic individuals. Southern Vietnam is under a more stringent lockdown and recording 5000 or so daily "infections" and still on an upward trend.

Even so, with 13,000 daily so-called "infections", Thailand's restrictions are significantly less stringent than those of NSW with it's paltry 100 daily cases. I thought Thailand was the laughing stock of the world but that title now clearly goes to Australia.


We may not be ready to open fully with complete disregard to restrictions, but the current condition of lockdown of half of Australia is laughable. As soon as the lockdowns end, we will be back with the virus spreading. Even with 80% vaccinated (unlikely) the virus will spread. So what are we locking down for? Places like Hong Kong have never locked down, they just control things simply and have very few deaths. We are so poorly served by our politicians at all levels, it's a disgrace.

on Sky news last night, they said someone has calculated that by 12 Nov, everyone who wants a shot will be vaccinated, so all borders should be fully open by then at the latest, IF they can't fast track jabs. Think many international airlines may not come back to Australia straight away, so we'll have massive pent up demand, but also a shortage of supply, so fares may skyrocket.

I hope you're right but I doubt Australia will be re-opening that quickly. What I can see them doing by then is allowing home quarantine initially for vaccinated and low to medium risk countries only, which will be followed by a possible expansion of quarantine free travel (with no vaccine requirement) with several Pacific island nations by March or April 2022 and a possible travel bubble with a testing and/or vaccination requirement with Singapore/Taiwan/Hong Kong also by around that time.

July 2022 marks when borders could first swing open to the entire world.


The opening of international borders will definitely be gradual. The first step should be to allow Australians to leave if they wish. Locking us in our own country is barbaric. Controlling the numbers coming back in is ok, but don't stop us from leaving. The first big question is when and what, will trigger the end to state borders closing to each other? I think 50% vaccinated should mean no border closures or at least not to fully vaccinated people. This will cause uproar and legal cases about vaccinated people getting preferential treatment but so far every legal case brought against governments during the pandemic has gone nowhere, so it is likely to be introduced.

There have been plenty of legal cases won overseas, in favour of freedom. The Portuguese high court I believe it was, ruled that PCR testing is not a valid tool to detect viral infections. A Belgian court also ruled that the Covid containment measures were "illegal" and ruled they had to be lifted within 30 days of making the judgement or else the state would be fined a certain amount per day. I could go on and on with more examples. However, in practice things are progressing slowly, and there is no telling what legal cases may be brought forward by individuals against governments in the future. Several major cases have been launched but not concluded yet.

The point though is that given a number of overseas examples of restrictions being fully or almost fully lifted (most of the USA, the UK and now even several European countries), it would be silly to think that Australians will put up with the current restrictions for much longer, especially once 40 or 50% have been vaccinated. Once this has occurred, even the unvaccinated should be granted their freedoms back, as has generally been the case in most of the USA, where about half or more of all states have banned vaccine passports and mask mandates.


I certainly hope you are correct with both your thoughts. Although it seems Europeans have much better results when challenging government compared to Australians. I sense the tide is turning and less Australians are happy with restrictions and as more get vaccinated I hope the change in mentality really gathers momentum.

Hi Guest, join in the discussion on Interstate travel restrictions

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