London done, now Qantas eyes non-stop flights to Paris

By David Flynn, March 26 2018
London done, now Qantas eyes non-stop flights to Paris

With its Boeing 787 service between Perth and London now flying high, Qantas is already looking ahead to bringing Paris back onto its route map as early as the end of 2019.

Speaking with media on the inaugural QF9 flight from Perth to London, Qantas CEO Alan Joyce said Paris was the next city he hoped the long-range Dreamliner could conquer.

“When we last did Paris it was from Singapore to Paris and it was three a week and it was hard to make it economically work,” Joyce reflected.

“We (now) have the rights to fly to Paris daily; we’ve never had those rights before,” he said, with the higher frequency boosting its appeal to business and leisure travellers alike.

“So we are keen on it, we are interested in it, but we need to bed this one down first,” Joyce said of the new Perth-London route. "We need to show that economically it’s going to work out.”

But the early signs look positive, Joyce revealed. “Bookings are particularly strong in premium classes and for the next month we have 90 percent load factor," he said, adding that as many as 60% of those bookings were to or from Perth and 40% for other cities such as Melbourne and Brisbane.

Qantas will run a rolling assessment of the flight's profitability every month and cast a major review in March 2019, at which point the airline hopes to have the confidence to announce non-stop flights to Paris, perhaps with Frankfurt to follow.

David

David Flynn is the Editor-in-Chief of Executive Traveller and a bit of a travel tragic with a weakness for good coffee, shopping and lychee martinis.

06 Dec 2017

Total posts 112

it should be reinstated.for Paris we had the air france codeshares via singapore or hong kong with qantas connections onto them or ex hkg they if it were not for the emirates partnership could and should have gone into partnership with cathay pacific there for that market till a suitable nonstop australia to europe nonstop plane existed.

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

19 Feb 2014

Total posts 451

Thank you for your wonderful insight, whatever you said.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

28 Oct 2011

Total posts 363

Punctuation is a wonderful thing......

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

15 Aug 2017

Total posts 101

What a crazy thing to say. QF & CX publically hate each other.

15 Nov 2016

Total posts 18

Not really, QF will sleep with anyone if it makes them money. That's just business.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

28 Dec 2011

Total posts 92

The game changer will be East Coast to EU direct. This will put pressure on the Mid East and Asian airlines.

Joe
Joe

03 May 2013

Total posts 474

Dale its only a game changer if the entire product is comparable. Currently Qantas doesn't cut the mustard. I'd fly EK or QR anyway over QF - eve with a stopover. Far far superior all round product.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

28 Dec 2011

Total posts 92

Yes True, but it's about the time and the product. As the Asian airlines get their product better, and with a price point that is better than the others. There will be more pressure for passengers. Air time is a factor.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer - Chairmans Lounge

01 Sep 2011

Total posts 375

Couldn't disagree more. Both EK and QR are rubbish on the ground.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

22 Jul 2015

Total posts 223

The soft product on the ME3 can be very hit and miss.

06 Jan 2017

Total posts 9

EK are only bearable in Y.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

22 Jul 2015

Total posts 223

Y or do you mean J or F? Y often to and from the UK can be like an extended bucks party

06 Dec 2017

Total posts 112

SQ for me for such flights.surely the cost of a day use room plus a gym/shower and bed for six hours before heading onwards(works well if coming from ADL)where the earlier connections in the morning can mean 8 to 9 HOUR waits in Singapore before heading onwards is more pleasant for people in Y.Even QR via Doha whose flight time with a good connection is identical ex ADL has to be better than anything via Perth.

06 Feb 2014

Total posts 117

For those in Perth it's a game changer already...Australia is a far bigger place than just Sydney or Melbourne...

Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer

07 Mar 2018

Total posts 14

Spot on Maabbit! It really is annoying to hear the constant downplaying of Perth as a non significant route option by the East Coast nay-sayers. If this works it will

Open up for the rest of Australia in time. Perth is the starting point for these non stop ULH routes. Perth is after all a city of 2mil plus so I think it’s earned the right to be a significant gateway to Australia.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

22 Jul 2015

Total posts 223

Despite Qantas sometimes feeling like Air Sydney, I would be keen to try the new service. It's just simply a case of where you make the transit stop. Might as well be Perth and I can get some meetings in in the West before heading out. QF1 if I want to go SIN or LHR, EK for Europe or Qf9 for LHR via our Perth office. I'm happy

Rav
Rav

18 Aug 2017

Total posts 40

Perth is a lovely city with much to see and do, like a large country town spread out, so different in tenor than either Melbourne or Sydney, would when ever possible arrange a stopover in Perth either way. QF charge a premium on the Premium seats to use it though so should make sure it is real premium service in all sections.

11 Dec 2015

Total posts 88

The more destinations Qantas fly daily + direct from Perth, the more viable it becomes as a mini-hub and hopefully then attracts more traffic to all those routes. Looks promising.



Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

19 Jan 2018

Total posts 95

Agreed Trogdor. The utility of flights ex PER for those in the main east coast ports will be significantly improved if the volume becomes such that there are regular and seamless connections to PER. There is no reason why PER could not be used in the same way that SIN used to function with the key flights coming in from SYD, MEL and BNE (and elsewhere) so as to make for a seamless connection onto LHR and, potentially, CDG and other European ports.

QFF

03 Sep 2014

Total posts 12

this will be good thing, however they will need to sort out the lounges for their loyal customers

qantas

10 Oct 2013

Total posts 114

thats true for people of perth - but those of us in adelaide gain nil time wise flying via perth on the none stop-flight as we still have a stop in perth like DXB for our emirates flights to EU - and with the inc cost of flying the new 'none-stop' its a no brainer to stay with EK for shorter and cheaper flight to EU

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

20 Nov 2011

Total posts 185

Respectfully Simon, I disagree with your assertion that the EK via DXB is equivalent to the QF via PER option for Adelaide flyers. Ex ADL if you travel via PER you have a short day time flight (same for the return journey), with the opportunity for a very long sleep on the main flight.

Having flown ADL - LHR and other european ports via DXB I find the flights timing very hard to manage for sleep adjustment. Especially on the return journey where you depart DXB at 0200 and then they immediately serve you a full breakfast. If you are a transit passenger you have usually just had a 7 hour flight from europe followed by several hours in the airport, and as such the last thing you want is to eat a ful breakfast when you get onboard.

Lastly, having not yet tried it I cant say this for certainty but the PER transit lounge and experience look delightful and well streamlined. Certainly better than bus transfers from remote stands and having to transfer terminals in DXB.

06 Dec 2017

Total posts 112

I did it some years back with SQ VIA SIN and got well rested on the longer flight SIN-LHR.ADL-SIN was dayime of 7.25 hours with a wait of 5h45 minutes before a 13h25 sector onwards so onwards it was 26h35m.timings were easier to manage than anything on a ME3 CARRIER(EK didn't yet serve ADL at the time of doing that trip in 2011).was lucky on the way home to have a SINGAPORE STOPOVER OF THREE nights to recharge after a tour of the UK.I would hate to imagine for those of you who fly straight through getting the late night flight arriving local time 6:20pm into SIN and connect onto ADL at 11:05pm based on summer schedules meaning it's supper time on leaving Asia but somewhere over SA you get breakfast at say 5:30am.would love to give via Perth a go even if it means a reduced hour work day to get home get ready for the flight to be at the airport at say 3:45pm for check in for the ADL-PER last QF flight of the day 5:15pm arrives 5:50pm local then 7:40pm arriving at the other end 5:10am.coming home is even better leave lunchtime arrive a day later the same and clear customs then domestic flight home.if one has gone through the hell that is adelaide immigration then i suggest the qf via perth option.

17 Sep 2015

Total posts 391

puppy79, your posts are difficult to read.


Have paragraphs of two or three sentences and leave a line between each paragraph.

06 Dec 2017

Total posts 112

they can make it work.remember years ago nobody predicted SYD-LAX OR MEL-LAX would work with any carrier to use another example and most people would rather stick with via HNL OR AKL as stopovers.hello granted there are people who can have that with say AIR NEW ZEALAND OR HAWAIIAN nowadays.the 747sp,747-400,A380,777-200LR/ER,777-300ER and yes the 787-8/9 are living proof people want nonstops.the business people to Australia ex America and the other way around went QANTAS OR PANAM(LATER UNITED)everyone else was with Continental back in the day.lets not forget it was Continental and Panam that were amongst the first to promote alternatives to the UK that avoided both Asia and the Troubled Middle East regions.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

09 Feb 2015

Total posts 299

It's great to have options and Qantas are certainly looking to plan ahead and provide travelers with options. But I certainly hope they retain Singapore as a stop over option for flights to London moving forward as 17+ hours in an aircraft does not appeal to me at all.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

10 Apr 2013

Total posts 388

Hopefully Qantas revises the 787 Premium Economy before the second group of 787s arrive for Paris and other US flights

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

19 Jan 2018

Total posts 95

I see that a learned review of the PE product has just be posted. Perhaps you can reserve judgement until you have taken it in?

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

10 Apr 2013

Total posts 388

I did fly PE domestically last year and whilst the rest of the seat was very good the pitch was a concern especially when the seats are in recline.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

19 Jan 2018

Total posts 95

I accept what you are saying. I wouldn't personally contemplate flying PE on a long-haul service like PER to LHR. Whilst it is a certainly a step above Y, it doesn't provide sufficient amenity for me to consider eschewing J.


Nevertheless, it is a better PE product than what some other carriers are offering and will, no doubt, attract some pax who are prepared to spend a little bit more for some additional comfort over Y without splurging on J.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

25 Sep 2013

Total posts 1205

I think you'll find from a cursory search of fares that the fare differential between premium economy and economy is more than just "a little bit more".

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

19 Jan 2018

Total posts 95

Happy to admit I can be more than a little out of touch about some matters.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

23 Feb 2017

Total posts 10

I think you have to remember that QF sold Premium Economy as 'revolutionary'. So all the bad reviews is justified. I also hope they dont make the same mistake on the 380 and new 787.

Id much rather spend the $140 to get an emergency exit seat in economy than spend $3000 more for that product.

23 Mar 2018

Total posts 21

When you check a price East coast Lhr on qantas site now it automatically sends you via Per. How many seats have they just shuffledcfrom other routes?

JKH
JKH

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

23 Sep 2017

Total posts 141

CDG has been an on-again/off-again affair for QF over the decades. What will make it stick this time?

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

17 Aug 2012

Total posts 2223

The rights to run a daily service. It literally says so in the article.

12 Dec 2012

Total posts 975

Which all available government documents say don't exist. Needs an update to the air service agreement.
Current agreement allows for 6 weekly to mainland france with QF 787 config.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

19 Jan 2018

Total posts 95

Yes and dealing with lethargic and broken French regulatory systems will only make the matter harder.

United Airlines - Mileage Plus

17 Feb 2016

Total posts 47

Got to hand it to the Red Roo..only they could launch an ultra long haul flight in 2018 using a brand new aeroplane without offering wifi and get away with it.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

22 Jul 2015

Total posts 223

Believe me when I say there are some of us who positively are thrilled that there is no WiFi.One of the few times that no one can bother me for a while.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

21 Jun 2017

Total posts 32

Amen. Best. Moment here yet

17 Sep 2015

Total posts 391

An article in a London newspaper says of the passengers on the new QF9/10 routing via PER, 60 per cent originate in the UK. The telling point is an admission that the yields are a lot lower ex LHR.


This may be a clue that the route will not be a moneyspinner.

If so, how long will QF give the PER - LHR nonstop dailies or will it just keep 'em operating because it has too much 'pride' not to?

There's also heaps of competition on the Kangaroo route and many airlines via Asia are only a couple of hours slower than MEL or SYD via PER to LHR, especially if the others have quick connections at their hub.

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 658

I am not sure that 60% originates in the UK suggest low yields. The balance may be connecting from the the rest of Europe not to mention Australians on the return leg of their ticket. The 60% figure may suggest they are taking passengers from BA, and do not the high number of Brits residing in Perth. The yield on that figure may in fact be well into the 90s. The fact that there were a few empty seat on the inaugural flight is more to do with blocking off seats that low demand.

17 Sep 2015

Total posts 391

patrickk, you may have slightly misunderstood. If an Australian is on the 'return leg' of his or her ticket, then he's not a 'UK originating passenger' for fare purposes, as the ticket's forward journey commenced in Australia (or somewhere else that involved hopping onto a flight like QF1 or QF9.)


The inaugural flight is not a good measure of either demand or yields (revenue per abvailable seat) as many would have been freeloaders.


Rav
Rav

18 Aug 2017

Total posts 40

If I read the article correctly the QF 9 flight originates in Melbourne, so you get on in Mel and have a relaxing x time in Per then fly to LHR, ADL and SYD,BRI all have the option of flying to Melbourne either for a stopover or direct to catch the flight and earn extra SC,

QF economy seats for the hr or 2 is not a hardship.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

22 Jul 2015

Total posts 223

Likely that well known reliable rag called the Daily Mail...

15 Feb 2018

Total posts 46

Traveller14, your assessment of the direct PER LHR route is very negative. If Qantas didn’t think the route would be viable, they wouldn’t have commenced it in the first place. I think you will find that it will stay, and further direct flights to Europe will commence from Perth.

Thai Airways International - Royal Orchid Plus

13 Jan 2017

Total posts 33

Red Cee, the ongoing viability of the PER-LHR route is still to be seen. My thoughts are that it is more a stepping stone or test case to future East coast to Europe direct flights. Its entirely conceivable that Perth could eventually be dropped for the direct Europe routing once the next generation of aircraft become available to Qantas in 4 or so years and they commence SYD/MEL to London/Europe
In the meantime, I agree with you that Perth to other European destinations will likely start - but I would not be surprised if this all changes once an aircraft is launched that will do these flights from Sydney or Melbourne in future.
Would be interested to see what others think, including the ABT gurus

If QF serves London, Paris and Frankfurt, the network map for Europe will look decent.

Qantas

08 May 2014

Total posts 10

Agree with the post above, this is putting a toe in the water to test the market. The real test will be if they get an aircraft, or when that is, that can do MEL & SYD to LHR, whether there will then be enough demand from PER to continue with 787 direct from here. Hope so.

P1
P1

24 Apr 2017

Total posts 46

Good luck with that Joyce. After the initial euphoria, I doubt you will be able to even come close to filling the B787's to London, let alone Paris. Melbourne travelers will prefer to go via Singapore or Dubai and avoid the 17 hour slog.

Likewise British tourists aren't interested in going to Perth or via Perth, they will fly to Sydney via other carriers who will also give them WIFI for the duration!

Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer

07 Mar 2018

Total posts 14

P1, I have been flying the DXB-PER route regularly since 2007 and in the case of EK carry huge numbers of Brits to Perth as it is a destination port for VFR. It should be remembered Perth has a very large UK migrant community. European and UK Short stay tourists, as strange as may seem to you, come in significant numbers via Perth as part of the experience before flying on to the East Coast. As for WiFi, that doesn’t seem to be a priority for most of these pax. After lights out most people are catching some sleep and not keen to pay the exhirbitant WiFi rates charged.

To demonstrate the Uk and European traffic in and out of Perth, up until the introduction of the A380 to Perth, EK flew 3 x 777 flights a day to Perth. EK still fly daily 777 and A380 flights to Perth with QR about to replace their daily 777 with the A380. Perth is a destination in its own right these days.

06 Feb 2014

Total posts 117

P1 - PERTH has better beaches and better weather than Sydney or Melbourne...something the brits love...


21 Apr 2017

Total posts 10

So what’s happens to Perth when QF can fly direct to Paris/Frankfurt from the eastern seaboard. Is Perth just a stop gap measure?

It’s great that Qantas looked outside the square to take it up to the middle eastern airlines & asian airlines with Perth. A great marketing ploy to say you can fly to Europe/uk direct from Australia.
Looking forward to the next gen aircraft that Qantas will select to go direct from the eastern states to Europe & beyond.

06 Feb 2014

Total posts 117

The marketing ploy is this romantic notion you'll see non stops from Sydney and Melbourne to a host of cities in Europe...we'll be lucky to see a Sydney- LHR non stop by 2025 and forget about Melbourne...


Air New Zealand - Airpoints

08 Aug 2014

Total posts 41

The operative word n all this discussion of mega-hour flights is by P1 above: slog. I've done AKL-DOH and the reverse and even in J it's "are we there yet?". And the Y leg knocked me around for days. Why should you have to treat travel as if it's a spa regime and prepare for it and be abstemious and careful and not enjoy the experience? I predict that purgatory-type mega-flights will be a phase that passengers will eventually reject. In the meantime I'm with Nancy Reagan: Just say: No!

30 Sep 2011

Total posts 44

Their doesn't seem to be many FF posting on this?

Fact QF has reduced it's daily MEL-LHR from A380 to a 787 so it has reduced the number of seats not increased them. I would hope it has good J bookings via Perth as it has reduced the number of seats dramatically and no F! QF now only flies the A380 via Singapore no QF metal goes to Dubai anymore. The only day flight is Emrates 5am (sort of day) Mel-Lhr. Paris would be significantly cheaper than LHR due to the UK passenger carbon tax. QF has tried twice in the last 10 days to change my Mel-Syd-Sin-Lhr booking via Per so am not convinced about the great bookings on this route? All the reviews I have read on Per-Lhr have been complimentary flight by QF. What's the new terminal like in Perth for those passengers in or out of the new lounge, like Sin or Dbx or bloody well doubt it!

15 Feb 2018

Total posts 46

Alan Joyce has indicated that Paris won’t be looked at until direct to LHR has proved profitable. So it may be a while.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

11 Oct 2014

Total posts 502

LOL .. re. LHR - if you can't make a 'game-changing' route (PER-LHR) work .. with a 'revolutionary fit-out' .. to one of the world's most popular airports .. with all of the potential feed from MEL, SYD, ADL, BNE etc .. then someone has been seriously drinking their own Kool-Aid.


Hi Guest, join in the discussion on London done, now Qantas eyes non-stop flights to Paris

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