Qantas orders six more Boeing 787-9 Dreamliners

By David Flynn, May 2 2018

Qantas will today announce an order for six more Boeing 787-9 jets, bringing the total red-tailed Dreamliner fleet to 14 in number.

The first of these additional 787-9s is due to arrive in late 2019, with a rapid delivery of all six by mid-to-late 2020 – just in time for the airline's 100th anniversary in 2020.

Qantas CEO Alan Joyce tips that with the new Dreamliners "we’ll be looking at destinations in the Americas, Asia, South Africa and Europe."

Paris and Germany have already been pencilled in as likely European destinations.

Read: London done, now Qantas eyes non-stop flights to Paris

The six new Boeing 787-9s will sport the same seating and configuration as the first eight.

Dreamliners in, jumbos out

These additional Dreamliners will allow Qantas to retire its remaining ten Boeing 747-400 jumbo jets by the end of 2020.

Qantas currently flies the ageing and fuel-thirsty jumbo jets to the USA (and seasonally to Vancouver), Asia, South America and South Africa, with some of those routes to be taken over by the Boeing 787 and others handed across to Airbus A330s.

"This really is the end of one era and the start of another," Joyce remarked.

"The jumbo has been the backbone of Qantas International for more than 40 years and we’ve flown almost every type that Boeing built. It’s fitting that its retirement is going to coincide with our centenary in 2020."

“By the end of 2020 we’ll have farewelled the 747, finished upgrading the cabins of our A380s, and welcomed our fourteenth 787."

The airline has not advised where the new Dreamliners will be based; the first order of eight jets was split four-each between Melbourne and Brisbane.

Is this the sweet spot for Qantas' Boeing 787 fleet?

Qantas' second tranche of Boeing 787s is drawn from a total 'orders and options' book of some 45 Dreamliners, although the airline is not expected to take up all of those due to changes in where it will use the Boeing 787s.

The size of the initial order, which stretches back to 2005, reflected Qantas’ intention to have the Boeing 787 replace the Airbus A330 on domestic routes.

However, Joyce has previously told Australian Business Traveller that he no longer plans to put the Boeing 787 onto domestic routes.

"Our thinking has evolved... while the 787 as with the A330 are pretty powerful they are over-spec'd" for domestic flights, "so the economics do not work."

Instead, Qantas will revamp its domestic fleet from the mid-2020s with either the advanced Boeing 737 MAX or the Airbus A320neo and the yet-to-be-built mid-sized Boeing 797, which would also pick up some flights into south-east Asia.

Read: Qantas CEO increasingly bullish on the Boeing 797

David
David

David Flynn

David Flynn is the Editor-in-Chief of Executive Traveller and a bit of a travel tragic with a weakness for good coffee, shopping and lychee martinis.

Traveller14

Traveller14

17 Sep 2015

Total posts 391

As usual, QF way behind many other airlines that have younger fleets in some instances, and better service on board from staff who really want to serve passengers, particularly the multitude of Asian airlines like CX JL KE OZ PR SQ.

B789 in Y is 'nightmareliner.'

aklrunway

aklrunway

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

09 May 2011

Total posts 333

Helpful comment and really adds such value. Thanks...

andredfb

andredfb

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

28 Apr 2013

Total posts 14

Crew are not there to ‘serve’ passengers. They are there to provide a service. There is a difference.

SteveCF

SteveCF

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

15 Aug 2012

Total posts 170

Not a well informed comment. Qantas Fleet is actually quite new, what distorts the average aircraft age is the fleet of 20 717’s they operate which are suited for there purpose.

It will be a sad day however when we no longer see the red kangaroo on a 747. There’s no doubt this aircraft opened a work of possibilities to Australian travelers.

patrickk

patrickk

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 395

Traveller and which of those including QF is most profitable CX and SQ are both in quite deep holes. Not sure about the others but I am sure they are not right up there.

AJW

AJW

16 Nov 2011

Total posts 501

I agree with the nightmare liner title but of course no different to almost all 787 operators.

As for the rest of your comment as a regular traveller I couldn’t disagree more. Qantas as others have pointed out have a reasonable fleet age (not airlines have the ability to roll aircraft over to meet the perceptions of age from clients). Their product whilst not THE best is pretty good and competitive. Food is good, yeah there are negative reports but think you will find that most companies have significantly more negative reviews than positive as that’s how people operate. And service, yeah can be a bit laid back but frankly that is representative of us as Australians and I much prefer that over the faux robotic service you get on Asian airlines or the over the top nonsense from the ME3.

Bob Burgess

Bob Burgess

13 Sep 2016

Total posts 184

Any credence which this argument may have is diminished by using juvenile terms like 'Nightmareliner'.

Tlar

Tlar

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

17 Jul 2013

Total posts 19

Easy to solve, Qantas, drop a seat in each row and go back to original seating config of 2-4-2. Then it will become Dreamliner again.

Traveller14

Traveller14

17 Sep 2015

Total posts 391

I'm not usually a fan of such terms but it was a simple way to refer to the very narrow seats in Y that are found on almost all airlines with this aircraft. Unlike JL, QF has chosen not to be more generous in seat width in Y to passengers.

Lots of comments on Internet about travellers are choosing other aircraft in Y and actively avoiding the B789s.

Contrary to what one might think, many business travellers use Y, especially on medium haul trips to north and southeast Asia. So it's a big consideration.

Michael Kao

Michael Kao

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

06 Nov 2014

Total posts 336

No doubt QF will need more of 787s. A fleet of only 14 is still relatively small compare with other airlines, especially QF doesn't have 777. For QF to consider new routes and retiring 747 at the same time (and ultimately A380), they'll need at least 30 787s IMO. Of course less than that if they take delivery of 777-max.

aklrunway

aklrunway

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

09 May 2011

Total posts 333

I'm sure they know what they're doing

David

David

24 Oct 2010

Total posts 2322

Not all Boeing 747s will be swapped out for Boeing 787s, and the replacement for the Airbus A380 is more likely to be the likes of the Boeing 777X.

Packetman21

Packetman21

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

28 Jul 2016

Total posts 108

Great and expected news! Maybe these will serve Paris and Frankfurt?

crazybenjamin

crazybenjamin

15 Dec 2015

Total posts 21

6 787s to replace 10 747s? Something's fishy...

mviy

mviy

05 May 2016

Total posts 524

Some routes the 747 flies on are well within the range of an A330. Indeed some routes have both 747 and A330 on them at the moment depending on where the demand is. Those routes will likely switch to A330 only.

GregXL

GregXL

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

26 May 2014

Total posts 395

There wont be 10 747s by the time these additional 6 787-9s arrive. Most likely 6, however even 6 787-9s for 6 747s is a large reduction in seat count. Further how can they be 747 replacements and support new route development at the same time ?

Himeno

Himeno

12 Dec 2012

Total posts 920

It isn't 6 to replace 10, it's 6 to replace 6. The first 8 787s are meant to bring the 747 fleet down to the 6 ERs.

Rons47

Rons47

01 May 2015

Total posts 7

Can you read 14 787s to replace 10 747s

mviy

mviy

05 May 2016

Total posts 524

I expect the SYD-SFO 747 will be replaced with a 787 unless QF is able to put an A380 or some other large aircraft on the route.

If QF goes with the 787 for SYD-SFO, perhaps with greatly reduced capacity out of SYD, QF will be able to increase MEL-SFO services to daily or close to daily.

fxdxdy

fxdxdy

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

18 May 2011

Total posts 219

Doesn't Qantas have ETOPS issues to consider when flying the 787s to South Africa & South America?
Something about CASA only approving twin engines for 180mins?
Or has that restriction been relaxed?

Tlar

Tlar

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

17 Jul 2013

Total posts 19

787 engine issue only related to 787 that is fitted with Trent 1000 engine. QF 787-9 and Jetstar 787-8 both uses GENx engine. So they are not effect with ETOPS rating.

Himeno

Himeno

12 Dec 2012

Total posts 920

The 787 and A330 have ETOPS type ratings of 330 and 240. CASA also needs to give Qantas an operator rating, CASA won't approve more then 180. Thus, even though QF has aircraft that can be used up to ETOPS330, they can't use that capabity because CASA won't let them.

The Southern Ocean routes need at least ETOPS240 to be viable.

reno

reno

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

20 Sep 2013

Total posts 469

It appears Joyce has an easier path to board approval for aircraft purchases then his predecessors.to little to late for this carrier.these aircraft will out of date like AJ and before they get the last on the books 787.

reno

reno

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

20 Sep 2013

Total posts 469

While a newer aircraft this is a significant downgrade in capacity across all cabins compared to the 747.congrats Qantas and good luck with any upgrades.

NQflyer

NQflyer

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

02 Jun 2015

Total posts 30

Brisbane will actually have increased capacity across the Pacific once the 747 is changed to the 787 double-daily flights. Also, I now won’t have to get the crazy early 5:50 am flight from North QLD to connect in Brisbane.

travelator

travelator

QFF Gold QC gold

26 Nov 2012

Total posts 56

When I first opened this article I immediately scrolled down to see what the first comment was......LOL.....I was expecting something about it being sad news that we're losing the 747.

reno

reno

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

20 Sep 2013

Total posts 469

[Deleted by admin - personal attack]

7OD

7OD

24 Apr 2012

Total posts 21

Not quite double daily reno but 11 times per week with all 787s from December.

https://www.ausbt.com.au/qantas-boeing-787-brisbane-los-angeles-new-york-flights-start-sept

GregXL

GregXL

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

26 May 2014

Total posts 395

Not quite two daily. With the next batch of 787s there will be two BNE-LAX on 4 days of the week.

NQflyer

NQflyer

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

02 Jun 2015

Total posts 30

No, I’m not nuts. You’re rude...

QF15/16 and QF55/56

Try fact checking before you insult people.

ChrisCh

ChrisCh

24 Apr 2012

Total posts 2925

Reno: Several of your comments this week have been deleted to remove personal attacks and remarks posted about other users, which have no place on this website. As always, please keep your comments to the topic, not the users engaged in the discussion. If this happens again, your commenting privileges will be suspended.

GBRGB

GBRGB

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

21 Jan 2014

Total posts 212

Will have to get my stuff sorted and get on a 747 before they go, never been on one so I would regret not flying on the most influential aircraft of the modern era once they are gone.

johnnypc67

johnnypc67

28 Nov 2012

Total posts 90

They are comfy and big but really noisy

Madhatter49

Madhatter49

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

11 Dec 2016

Total posts 40

David: Typo with the excerpt of Joyce's comments.


"However, Joyce has previously told Australian Business Traveller that he longer plans to put the Boeing 787 onto domestic routes."

Frank

Frank

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

09 Sep 2013

Total posts 175

Looks like CityRail should stick to his trains..

He appears to know nothing about 747s or aircraft in general.

Joe

Joe

03 May 2013

Total posts 365

Maybe they’ll bring in hi fly after their finished with NZ with their A340 for SCL and JNB :))

Joe

Joe

03 May 2013

Total posts 365

Ooops: They’re *

Mike66

Mike66

30 Apr 2015

Total posts 6

Can I ask, I see lots of comments about 2-4-2 seating and with nearly 700 of them built how many airlines actually have a 2-4-2 config. I know ANA did have this but was told that they are converting to 3-3-3 to enable more seats, as much as you might not like it, Nine across V's Eight Across, if it was your business, what would you do if it gives you a better payload???

Himeno

Himeno

12 Dec 2012

Total posts 920

The 787 was designed for 8 across. Adding a 9th seat to each row narrows the seats and reduces possible range.

Both ANA and JAL, the first airlines to get 787s, installed 8 across. Every other airline has gone with 9 across.
ANA has converted theirs to 9 across, JAL hasn't.

Passengers don't like 9 across 787s because it causes the economy seats to be narrower then the seats on simliar sized aircraft.

Powerledger

Powerledger

01 Mar 2018

Total posts 8

Yes the reviews are becoming quite negative on long haul the QF 9, 10, plenty about it on QF FB

Paddy1916

Paddy1916

06 Jan 2017

Total posts 7

Love this aircraft.

UpUpAndAway

UpUpAndAway

QF

11 Jul 2014

Total posts 287

I've heard rumours of new ETOPS rule coming out wouldn't that favour the 747, and Qantas biggest problem is parents giving there children free business class trips using points and those kids then complaining about the quality of service compared to other airlines. Parents then opting for those other airlines

Zulu

Zulu

24 Apr 2017

Total posts 4

PER to Britain or anywhere such as France Germany involving long hours in a cramped and very narrow Economy seat is going to leave them open to potential legal action for avoiding the safety aspect (deep vein thrombosis). And, Qantas would get more sales growth if they could answer this vexing question. The 787 is a short term solution for them but not the long term answer.


Ian D

Ian D

03 Dec 2015

Total posts 2

Re 789s with 9-abreast seating, earlier this month flew Auckland-Christchurch on NZ and found it very uncomfortable with extremely narrow arm-rests, tight seats (and I'm slim!) and when the person in front reclined, the seat-back screen was almost in my face. This was only an hour's flight and I can imagine that after one experience flying in this seating configuration many people will choose a different plane, especially for extreme long-haul routes like PER-LON. If QF was looking to market PER-Europe flights as premium services, they need to move to 2-4-2 in Y.

pkjames

pkjames

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

21 Jan 2017

Total posts 45

I once tried the ANA 789 in Y, it was very very uncomfortable and I am just a short asian.

PER-LHR in QF Y would be quite a nightmare.

azriazmi90

azriazmi90

Malaysia Airlines - Enrich

28 Feb 2017

Total posts 8

what happen to existing A380s on orders?

Himeno

Himeno

12 Dec 2012

Total posts 920

Still 8 A380s on order and 4 options. Very unlikely to be delivered. Likely to be converted to A320NEOs (which when combined with existing Qantas Group A320 orders could replace all the narrow bodies in use by QF and JQ), or some form of A350 (should QF deem it better then the 777X for Project Sunrise).

Himeno

Himeno

12 Dec 2012

Total posts 920

Firming up more 787 orders isn't a surprise. That was quite expected.

Getting rid of the 747ERs in 2020 is quite surprising. They were expected to still be around at least until 2022, if not through 2025.
Still, they could always change their minds about that again.

Felipe

Felipe

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

18 May 2017

Total posts 16

Well, QF can order as many 787 "dreamliners" as they really want, but I certainly will NOT fly in one of them... I will do a 777 or A380 for long-haul, but will not go in any 787 "dreamliner". No way.

Dan22

Dan22

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

07 Aug 2013

Total posts 54

Is that economy only or would not care if it was business?

johnnypc67

johnnypc67

28 Nov 2012

Total posts 90

The 787's will do for now to open new routes and replace the 747's until bigger longer reaching aircraft come in. They will supplement the A380's for the time being on long haul. I can't see QF ordering all the 45 787's (maybe more for JQ) or the 8 A380's on order

Sr Batrill

Sr Batrill

04 Dec 2017

Total posts 25

Airbus rules for long and ultra-long haul; specifically the A380 and A350. They are the two best aircraft for least noise and atmospherics. The 787 even with Genex cant compete with the A350. The A350 is also superior in its cabin size and configuration, esp in Y.

johnnypc67

johnnypc67

28 Nov 2012

Total posts 90

I do remember when I worked for them in the 80's QANTAS had an entire 747 fleet (before the TAA/AUSTRALIAN domestic Merger) it was super exciting when they got the 767's, it was such a good aircraft. Looking forward to the 797 if it eventuates

Fynsie

Fynsie

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

02 May 2018

Total posts 1

Really going to miss 3E/3F, best seats anywhere ever in my view and not likely to be repeated.

But has to happen. Entertainment failure; seat recline failure; cupboard door in front of my fav seats falling off in turbulence. All recent (< 12 mths) events on QF15/16 which are my most regular flights. The old girls are no longer young and beautiful. (PC incorrect but describing an emotion; hope that not censored!)

jed

jed

14 Feb 2015

Total posts 1

I'm not sure what the big deal is..These old bombs need to be put out to pastures, like some of there crew..!

Dan22

Dan22

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

07 Aug 2013

Total posts 54

I’m not really fussed about the Dreamliner. If flying economy I will go out of my way to avoid being on a 9 abreast 787. VA and DL have 9 abreast on a 777 I imagine an extra inch or 2 makes a comfortable difference.

Have done only once the 787 on Etihad and I was so squashed for a 10hr flight. Did manage to fall asleep but remember waking up so hot, dehydrated and sweating. Personally, the only excitement out of this announcement is potential new routes and being a Perth local more direct connections to Europe the better for economy etc. I read an article the QF PER-LHR flights are always full in premium cabins. I might have thought a chance on future b787 orders to increase premium cabin seating.

johnnypc67

johnnypc67

28 Nov 2012

Total posts 90

The latest 3-4-3 in Y that many are doing is also pretty crap

johnnypc67

johnnypc67

28 Nov 2012

Total posts 90

How many seats would QF loose in Y if they moved to 2-4-2, I think about 20. that's quite a bit of revenue isn't it?

GoldenClub

GoldenClub

15 Jan 2013

Total posts 37

I have taken eight business class flights on QANTAS in the last five years and would say 4 have been very good to excellent and four have been poor to appalling service.

After one flight I lodged an official complaint about the service provided by one of the staff.


I think a 50% strike rate is just too high when forking out hard earned cash for business class. I will be flying again later this year as part of a very competitive Finnair fare, but would never choose to fly all the way to Europe paying the premium price QANTAS charges for the Kangaroo Route.

My impression is that QANTAS is a company just doesn't care enough anymore about providing consistently great service.

Any word on whether QANTAS will fix their 787 PE pitch which was received such negative reviews?

GregXL

GregXL

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

26 May 2014

Total posts 395

Over 100 comments on this announcement and this is first mention of the PE lack of leg room! I recently flew MEL-PER in PE on a domestic 787-9 service. I was impressed by everything about the PE product, with the exception that for me at 6ft 5inches tall it seemed about as cramped as a generous Y seat when seats were reclined. I won’t be considering it for future long haul travel unless it is improved.

Jedi

Jedi

04 May 2018

Total posts 24

Wow amazed that you didn't get howled down here for those comments but IMHO tend to agree with what you have said as its been my personal experience also with inconsistent service. 50% SR not good.

Jedi

Jedi

04 May 2018

Total posts 24

How was the Neil Perry inspired food.

zoomzoom

zoomzoom

21 Aug 2015

Total posts 90

10 years late!..............I prefer to fly the 350.........

patrickk

patrickk

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 395

I expect the next announcement late next year or late 2020 at the time of the 100 year anniversary will be for a bunch 787-10s to replace the 10 A333s, when they reach their 20 year lifespan, from 2022 for Asian regional services, . I would prefer the A359 for this, but it won't happen.

GregXL

GregXL

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

26 May 2014

Total posts 395

That could depend on Project Sunrise, in that an A350 ULR choice could result in wider use of the A350. Presumably some of the 787 options can be taken as 10s, so this would seem likely to be the best deal for QF.

cooper81

cooper81

BA Gold

01 Apr 2012

Total posts 149

Getting rid of old 747 'gas guzzlers' doesn't ALWAYS make sense. BA still has a huge fleet (50-ish) of the jet and will remain in the fleet for some time yet. Why? Because although their operating costs are obviously higher they are owned outright. New 787's etc do not come cheap. The purchasing/leasing fees have to be weighed up against the operating savings.

The other interesting thing to note is the customer comfort on the 747. BA's highest 'aircraft customer satisfaction' rating is not for the A380 or 787....it's for the refurbished 747's.

BA's 747's will begin to be replaced by A350's in Q3 next year but BA is in no rush and just last month announced more 747's will get refurbished cabins so they can fly longer.

And as crew I can tell you i'd rather work on the 747 ANYYY day than the A380 or 787. The newer aircraft are basically designed to fit as many seats in as possible. Galleys are made as small and unpleasant to work in as possible, there tends to be lower toilet:bathroom ratios, less 'room' in general.

Long live the 747 I say!

puppy79

puppy79

06 Dec 2017

Total posts 112

anyone remember the QANTAS A300'S INHERITED FROM AUSTRALIAN.2x4x2 configuration.in fact Years later I WENT ON THEIR A330 ADELAIDE TO SINGAPORE same kind of configuration and loved it.what were they thinking with the 9 across configuration.what might work trans tasman or to the west coast of america or asia or even noumea services on the 787's is terrible to uk or europe.

mo

mo

22 Dec 2012

Total posts 37

The 787 is a good plane but far too tight in Qantas configuration (3-3-3) for long haul travel. The A380, A330 and 747 are better in this regard.

In terms of customer experience, this is a step backwards. Unless you're a sardine.

MarkivJ

MarkivJ

22 Jan 2018

Total posts 61

Not sure Of the benefit of flying to non oneworld hubs like Paris and Frankfurt. Can’t they just use the new 787s to open another daily to London? I’m sure the premium load is there if so many Far eastern and middle eastern carriers fly several times a day to various Australian cities.

AJW

AJW

16 Nov 2011

Total posts 501

Whole idea of a 787 sized aircraft is to fly point to point, not point to hub.

The ME3 and the likes of CX, TG, SQ etc fly from Australia to hubs hence the multiple flights and larger aircraft.

With London in particular I am certain Qantas could do with some more flights and capacity, but the airline game is about maximizing profit with the resources available and that are affordable.

AT

AT

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

14 Sep 2012

Total posts 249

I love and always will love the 744, but having flown it recently it is a little but like Noah's Ark. Things have to change and evolve and great to see Qantas evolving with this new fleet. But something that no other aircraft will ever ever in my eyes be able to match "747 will always be a miracle".

groags

groags

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

24 Apr 2018

Total posts 3

Unless CASA approves an EDTO 330 I can see SYD-JNB getting dropped in favour of SYD-PER-JNB! Especially if they get to use the new transit lounge.

wanderingvan

wanderingvan

01 Feb 2018

Total posts 33

Just another view on B787 3-3-3 configuration, I haven't been on a Qantas 787 in y yet but had been on a few other airlines B787, (short & long haul), and found the 3-3-3 entirely comfortable for y. I am definitely not on the slim size.

Flew SCL-AKL-SYD on Latam 787 in y not that long ago and it was better experience than some, the headroom,big windows certainly made the different compare to a A330.

In case if anyone wondering, I had been in F and J more frequently than y.

lakepacificair

lakepacificair

25 Nov 2016

Total posts 27

In Australia, whether you are a MP or a successful banker, a chef or a school teacher, your social status is no higher or lower than cabin crew members.

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