What routes for Qantas' next six Boeing 787s?

29 replies

patrickk

Qantas

Member since 19 Apr 2012

Total posts 510

Austline I agree but am not sure the 789 has the legs for SYD/ORD hence BRIS/ORD which is much the same as Perth LHR and may happen this year (JV approved?) with the current tranche of Four.

Madhatter49

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

Member since 11 Dec 2016

Total posts 65

With all the talk about etops restrictions holding back the twin jets on the SCL/JNB route.


I wonder if the recently announced permanent runway being built at the Antarctic base. They're going to make it a year round usable facility I thought?

Could it be used as an emergency diversion spot if needed??

I know it would have complications, but in an emergency situation it could be likely I assume??
Considering the C17s land there.

patrickk

Qantas

Member since 19 Apr 2012

Total posts 510

I think C17s are gravel runway capable, but I suspect a 789 is not. It would be a long shot for ETOPS certification. There may in fact have enough load for 4-5 A380s per week anyway if there is 300+ year round loads

Madhatter49

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

Member since 11 Dec 2016

Total posts 65

I think C17s are gravel runway capable, but I suspect a 789 is not. It would be a long shot for ETOPS certification. There may in fact have enough load for 4-5 A380s per week anyway if there is 300+ year round loads

ok, good to know. Just a thought, but I don't know as much detail as others on here and accept that.

Rufus1

Member since 04 Dec 2013

Total posts 65

I'm puzzled that CDG is discussed much more than a return to FRA. QF served FRA much more recently and with very strong loads - having flown that flight many times, it was often 100% full in J and there were several times when I couldn't get a last minute seat in any class. Surely FRA must be pretty high on the agenda for the next batch of 787s.

Pcoder

Member since 14 Oct 2016

Total posts 21

Since there getting rid of their 747s early, there is going a reduction in capacity. There's only going to be a limited window for new routes unless more planes are ordered.


Since they let one of the cheap 787s expire, I'd imagine that no more 787s will be purchased for a number of years. I'll predict that they will order the a350 as the 777-8 is probably a bit too heavy for what they want (Plus the only airlines to order have been the ME3, which would make resale very hard).

mamunr

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 18 Apr 2018

Total posts 2

CDG is definitely one of them. Otherwise it makes no sense to have a codeshare agreement with Air France when Emirates already flies there.

whoppersandwich

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 11 Dec 2017

Total posts 122

SQ A350ULRs are only kitted out for 162pax, the 777-8 is marketed to carry 370 in a 2 class config.QF has requested a 300 seater with a potential 4 class arrangement, suggesting that a red-tailed 778 will have a range significantly higher than what Boeing has published giving it a far greater edge than the current Airbus offerings.


QF has options for 8 more 789s if my math is right, with purchase rights for 30 more. Qantas is in quite an enviable position to keep their cards close to their chest until they decide to continue the expansion into Europe and North America. As an aside, only one of those options has lapsed - with the rumour mill suggesting that Boeing will gladly offer it back to them if required (though I imagine QF will prefer to maintain an even number of aircraft).

Wiz

Member since 25 Sep 2017

Total posts 3

I'm puzzled that CDG is discussed much more than a return to FRA. QF served FRA much more recently and with very strong loads - having flown that flight many times, it was often 100% full in J and there were several times when I couldn't get a last minute seat in any class. Surely FRA must be pretty high on the agenda for the next batch of 787s.

I'm puzzled why ANZ don't do AKL-PER-FRA. They used to fly there as well. Many advantages including:

1) no terminal issues in perth
2) FRA is star hub
3) already have 787-9
4) codeshare with LH
5) gives Perth residents One stop service to every back block airport in Europe
6) give ANZ access to new market

patrickk

Qantas

Member since 19 Apr 2012

Total posts 510

The reason that CDG has come back on the radar is the 789 has a low number of seats and so can go daily (due to French capacity limits). It couldn’t it do it before as it would have been restricted to 3 (747) flights per week.

patrickk

Qantas

Member since 19 Apr 2012

Total posts 510

Pcoder I expect the next round of 787s will most likely be 787-10s in a regional configuration (~320 seats) to replace the 10 A333s from about 2022. That may be another 100th anniversary (2020) announcement, together with the 777-8 from 2024-25.

whoppersandwich

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 11 Dec 2017

Total posts 122

The recent AF partnership update makes it seem like PER-CDG should be around the corner. Boeing anticipates the 778 will enter service in 2022, which is conveniently the same year QF want to start the sunrise flights!

Himeno

Member since 12 Dec 2012

Total posts 289

The reason that CDG has come back on the radar is the 789 has a low number of seats and so can go daily (due to French capacity limits). It couldn’t it do it before as it would have been restricted to 3 (747) flights per week.

Not daily under the current agreement. 236 seats allows for 6 weekly.
The agreement allows for 3.0 "units" per week.
400+ seats = 1 unit
360-399 = 0.9
320-359 = 0.8
280-319 = 0.7
240-279 = 0.6
200-239 = 0.5
150-199 = 0.4
under 150 = 0.25

There is a permitted overflow of 0.25, so the max possible allowed under the current agreement is 3.25 unions a week.
The QF 787-9 config is 0.5 units. Daily flights would be 3.5 units.

Himeno

Member since 12 Dec 2012

Total posts 289

I can't see QF downgrading SYD/HND it will go to a 789 same timing and they will supplement this with 7 x A330 SYD/NRT, morning departure ex SYD.

If they drop the HND 747 for a 787 and add a SYD-NRT to keep the 747 seat count, then they'd be better off having a NRT night flight from SYD/day return and getting a codeshare on the JL AU flights.

The QF TYO flights are often sold out with Japanese school groups. It's rare that I don't get an op up on a QF TYO flight when I'm not already booked in J.

DanV

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 04 Nov 2017

Total posts 68

I'm puzzled that CDG is discussed much more than a return to FRA. QF served FRA much more recently and with very strong loads - having flown that flight many times, it was often 100% full in J and there were several times when I couldn't get a last minute seat in any class. Surely FRA must be pretty high on the agenda for the next batch of 787s.

I'm puzzled why ANZ don't do AKL-PER-FRA. They used to fly there as well. Many advantages including:
1) no terminal issues in perth
2) FRA is star hub
3) already have 787-9
4) codeshare with LH
5) gives Perth residents One stop service to every back block airport in Europe
6) give ANZ access to new market

May not want to step on the toes of LH? Also would NZ use QF for domestic feed at PER for any hypothetical PER-FRA flight or rely entirely on O&D out of PER?

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