I note that the QF111 and Q112 direct flights between Perth and Auckland are not currently available for the 2018/19 season I would suspect that they would be there by now if Qantas planned to operate this route again. It would be great if anyone could advise otherwise. This may be consistent with Qantas' strategy of halting growth at Perth. Personally, is a real shame to not offer this route given the monopoly Air NZ has.
"... Qantas' strategy of halting growth at Perth."
It's hard to know what goes on behind closed doors, and what negotiations are taking place, and whether or not one party is being unreasonable ... but an argument can be made that it's not so much Qantas' strategy of halting growth at Perth, but Perth Airport's strategy of halting Qantas' growth at Perth. My guess is that if the Perth-Auckland flights are not taking place, it's for the same reason that Qantas' planned Perth-Johannesburg flights had to be abandoned: namely, Qantas and Perth Airport couldn't come to an agreement regarding which terminal to fly out from (Qantas wanted T3/4, Perth Airport wanted T1).
PAPL’s issues are more about seasonal flights and what that does to erode a long-term player’s market during that period. In the case of SAA, they are propped up by the SA govt and having Qantas take some of their monopoly share would probably put them in the red for PER-JNB. If SAA leave Perth as a result then PAPL and its T1 tenants lose income.
But only if they can fly into and out of the same terminal.
I'm totally bewildered at how they can spend millions of dollars of taxpayers money upgrading T3/4 for international flights and then prevent the airline from using it as intended.
Surely letting QF build capacity at T3/4 until they physically outgrow it will actually help the T1 precinct grow.
PAPL’s issues are more about seasonal flights and what that does to erode a long-term player’s market during that period. In the case of SAA, they are propped up by the SA govt and having Qantas take some of their monopoly share would probably put them in the red for PER-JNB. If SAA leave Perth as a result then PAPL and its T1 tenants lose income.
Then PAPL shouldn't have allowed QF to operate any international flights from their terminal or should have fast tracked the move of QF to the other side of airfield. The behaviour you have outlined by PAPL is actively picking winners and discouraging competition. The only winners are SAA... its certainly not consumers.
Additionally, PAPL is acting in an extremely short sighted manner, you only have to see how Qantas acted with its Sydney Osaka flights which were seasonal until they became permanent. As more aircraft come online and the financials and operationals become better known there is a likelihood of this happening in the case of a route like Perth Johannesburg. But that testing wouldn't be able to take place until the airport allows for the seasonal route.
PAPL’s issues are more about seasonal flights and what that does to erode a long-term player’s market during that period. In the case of SAA, they are propped up by the SA govt and having Qantas take some of their monopoly share would probably put them in the red for PER-JNB. If SAA leave Perth as a result then PAPL and its T1 tenants lose income.
Then PAPL shouldn't have allowed QF to operate any international flights from their terminal or should have fast tracked the move of QF to the other side of airfield. The behaviour you have outlined by PAPL is actively picking winners and discouraging competition. The only winners are SAA... its certainly not consumers.
Actually i disagree in this case. Perth airport made the QF T4 arrangement work for LHR / europe flights as its a win for the airport and consumers, by offering a new possibility.
While QF should be able to offer these flights from T4, these seasonal flights may well force SAA off the route, and SAA arnt a particularly strong competitor, and they have been serving the route for a very long time.
This would render QF the only airline flying directly between the continents AU + NZ - SA, and after that prices will only go up and hurt the consumer.
PAPL’s issues are more about seasonal flights and what that does to erode a long-term player’s market during that period. In the case of SAA, they are propped up by the SA govt and having Qantas take some of their monopoly share would probably put them in the red for PER-JNB. If SAA leave Perth as a result then PAPL and its T1 tenants lose income.
Then PAPL shouldn't have allowed QF to operate any international flights from their terminal or should have fast tracked the move of QF to the other side of airfield. The behaviour you have outlined by PAPL is actively picking winners and discouraging competition. The only winners are SAA... its certainly not consumers.
I dont think its PAPL's job to prop up SAA by making it difficult for Qantas. If there is a business case for QF to fly PER-JNB then they should be able to do it.
PAPL’s issues are more about seasonal flights and what that does to erode a long-term player’s market during that period. In the case of SAA, they are propped up by the SA govt and having Qantas take some of their monopoly share would probably put them in the red for PER-JNB. If SAA leave Perth as a result then PAPL and its T1 tenants lose income.
Then PAPL shouldn't have allowed QF to operate any international flights from their terminal or should have fast tracked the move of QF to the other side of airfield. The behaviour you have outlined by PAPL is actively picking winners and discouraging competition. The only winners are SAA... its certainly not consumers.
Actually i disagree in this case. Perth airport made the QF T4 arrangement work for LHR / europe flights as its a win for the airport and consumers, by offering a new possibility.
While QF should be able to offer these flights from T4, these seasonal flights may well force SAA off the route, and SAA arnt a particularly strong competitor, and they have been serving the route for a very long time.
This would render QF the only airline flying directly between the continents AU + NZ - SA, and after that prices will only go up and hurt the consumer.
but what has that got to do with PAPL making business difficult for QF? Its hardly QF's fault that SAA isnt particularly financially secure. Your conclusion may well be correct, but the ends dont justify the means.
PAPL’s issues are more about seasonal flights and what that does to erode a long-term player’s market during that period. In the case of SAA, they are propped up by the SA govt and having Qantas take some of their monopoly share would probably put them in the red for PER-JNB. If SAA leave Perth as a result then PAPL and its T1 tenants lose income.
Then PAPL shouldn't have allowed QF to operate any international flights from their terminal or should have fast tracked the move of QF to the other side of airfield. The behaviour you have outlined by PAPL is actively picking winners and discouraging competition. The only winners are SAA... its certainly not consumers.
Actually i disagree in this case. Perth airport made the QF T4 arrangement work for LHR / europe flights as its a win for the airport and consumers, by offering a new possibility.
While QF should be able to offer these flights from T4, these seasonal flights may well force SAA off the route, and SAA arnt a particularly strong competitor, and they have been serving the route for a very long time.
This would render QF the only airline flying directly between the continents AU + NZ - SA, and after that prices will only go up and hurt the consumer.
It should not be an airport's role to determine effectively who flies what routes. Airport = Maintain a runway, a terminal etc. Airline = fly planes between points.
If the airline has a terminal, with international gates that have capacity (like Qantas does) and if there are landing slots, then they should be able to operate flights where-ever they want (subject to Government approvals and agreements).
You may indeed have a valid point regarding SAA, but protecting it from competition is not the role of an airport. And generally speaking, if there is money to be made, the market has a way of rectifying issues in the long run.
Why does Qantas expect any special treatment from Perth Airport, they are only a very minor player amongst the 20 International Airlines flying out of Perth, servicing only London & Singapore daily, and proposed seasonal services that would potentially put at risk daily flights by SAA & Air NZ Like Sydney which requires all international flights to operate from the International Terminal, that is the policy of Perth Airport. Why does Qantas want to continue flying out of their substandard T4 & T3 Terminals in Perth anyway, Supposedly the market leader, the Qantas Terminals are at least 20 years behind the very modern Perth Virgin Australia T1 Domestic Terminal adjoining both the T1 International Terminal & T2 Intrastate Terminal.
ianm
ianm
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 16 Oct 2017
Total posts 1
I note that the QF111 and Q112 direct flights between Perth and Auckland are not currently available for the 2018/19 season I would suspect that they would be there by now if Qantas planned to operate this route again. It would be great if anyone could advise otherwise. This may be consistent with Qantas' strategy of halting growth at Perth. Personally, is a real shame to not offer this route given the monopoly Air NZ has.
Sibelius
Sibelius
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
Member since 06 Aug 2017
Total posts 181
"... Qantas' strategy of halting growth at Perth."
Andrew Barkery
Andrew Barkery
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 21 Mar 2011
Total posts 433
Why not take the afternoon/evening arrival 787 (PER - MEL) and then do the international transit in MEL T2 and get the red eye to AKL?
Mjudd
Mjudd
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 14 Dec 2016
Total posts 57
It surprises me that Qantas aren't offering a year round daily service on this route now.
It would a great option for NZ travellers to get to London
hutch
hutch
Member since 07 Oct 2012
Total posts 771
It would a great option for NZ travellers to get to London
But only if they can fly into and out of the same terminal.
ZQN Fan
ZQN Fan
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 27 Nov 2017
Total posts 46
PAPL’s issues are more about seasonal flights and what that does to erode a long-term player’s market during that period. In the case of SAA, they are propped up by the SA govt and having Qantas take some of their monopoly share would probably put them in the red for PER-JNB. If SAA leave Perth as a result then PAPL and its T1 tenants lose income.
dm12
dm12
Member since 08 Feb 2018
Total posts 200
It would a great option for NZ travellers to get to London
But only if they can fly into and out of the same terminal.
I'm totally bewildered at how they can spend millions of dollars of taxpayers money upgrading T3/4 for international flights and then prevent the airline from using it as intended.
hutch
hutch
Member since 07 Oct 2012
Total posts 771
Then PAPL shouldn't have allowed QF to operate any international flights from their terminal or should have fast tracked the move of QF to the other side of airfield. The behaviour you have outlined by PAPL is actively picking winners and discouraging competition. The only winners are SAA... its certainly not consumers.
cavemanzk
cavemanzk
NZ
Member since 13 Aug 2016
Total posts 6
Maybe they are waiting for those JQ A321NEO-LR's to arrive ;)
Therealtimsmith
Therealtimsmith
Member since 23 Aug 2014
Total posts 3
Additionally, PAPL is acting in an extremely short sighted manner, you only have to see how Qantas acted with its Sydney Osaka flights which were seasonal until they became permanent. As more aircraft come online and the financials and operationals become better known there is a likelihood of this happening in the case of a route like Perth Johannesburg. But that testing wouldn't be able to take place until the airport allows for the seasonal route.
jrfsp
jrfsp
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 04 Mar 2014
Total posts 105
Then PAPL shouldn't have allowed QF to operate any international flights from their terminal or should have fast tracked the move of QF to the other side of airfield. The behaviour you have outlined by PAPL is actively picking winners and discouraging competition. The only winners are SAA... its certainly not consumers.
Actually i disagree in this case. Perth airport made the QF T4 arrangement work for LHR / europe flights as its a win for the airport and consumers, by offering a new possibility.
dm12
dm12
Member since 08 Feb 2018
Total posts 200
Then PAPL shouldn't have allowed QF to operate any international flights from their terminal or should have fast tracked the move of QF to the other side of airfield. The behaviour you have outlined by PAPL is actively picking winners and discouraging competition. The only winners are SAA... its certainly not consumers.
I dont think its PAPL's job to prop up SAA by making it difficult for Qantas. If there is a business case for QF to fly PER-JNB then they should be able to do it.
dm12
dm12
Member since 08 Feb 2018
Total posts 200
Then PAPL shouldn't have allowed QF to operate any international flights from their terminal or should have fast tracked the move of QF to the other side of airfield. The behaviour you have outlined by PAPL is actively picking winners and discouraging competition. The only winners are SAA... its certainly not consumers.
Actually i disagree in this case. Perth airport made the QF T4 arrangement work for LHR / europe flights as its a win for the airport and consumers, by offering a new possibility.
but what has that got to do with PAPL making business difficult for QF? Its hardly QF's fault that SAA isnt particularly financially secure. Your conclusion may well be correct, but the ends dont justify the means.
hutch
hutch
Member since 07 Oct 2012
Total posts 771
Then PAPL shouldn't have allowed QF to operate any international flights from their terminal or should have fast tracked the move of QF to the other side of airfield. The behaviour you have outlined by PAPL is actively picking winners and discouraging competition. The only winners are SAA... its certainly not consumers.
Actually i disagree in this case. Perth airport made the QF T4 arrangement work for LHR / europe flights as its a win for the airport and consumers, by offering a new possibility.
It should not be an airport's role to determine effectively who flies what routes. Airport = Maintain a runway, a terminal etc. Airline = fly planes between points.
Bentley
Bentley
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
Member since 28 Feb 2018
Total posts 2
Why does Qantas expect any special treatment from Perth Airport, they are only a very minor player amongst the 20 International Airlines flying out of Perth, servicing only London & Singapore daily, and proposed seasonal services that would potentially put at risk daily flights by SAA & Air NZ Like Sydney which requires all international flights to operate from the International Terminal, that is the policy of Perth Airport. Why does Qantas want to continue flying out of their substandard T4 & T3 Terminals in Perth anyway, Supposedly the market leader, the Qantas Terminals are at least 20 years behind the very modern Perth Virgin Australia T1 Domestic Terminal adjoining both the T1 International Terminal & T2 Intrastate Terminal.