Qantas is cracking down on illegal buying & selling of frequent flyer points

28 replies

GBRGB

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 21 Jan 2014

Total posts 267

Mannej you are missing the point, anyone can be someone’s partner, we can no longer assign a society view of what constitutes a relationship, I don’t see how QF could under any possible circumstances ask someone to prove that someone is their partner, how could that process possibly occur without invading someone’s privacy.

mannej

QF

Member since 21 May 2014

Total posts 174

Mannej you are missing the point, anyone can be someone’s partner, we can no longer assign a society view of what constitutes a relationship, I don’t see how QF could under any possible circumstances ask someone to prove that someone is their partner, how could that process possibly occur without invading someone’s privacy.

Sorry but I haven't missed the point. It irks me when people bandy around the terms Discrimination and Privacy as if it is completely illegal when it clearly isn't the case.

GBRGB

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 21 Jan 2014

Total posts 267

I didn’t mention illegal, you did, and completely irrelevant, plain and simple Qantas do not have the right to ask someone to prove that a person is in a relationship with someone else, it does not have a right to ask what sort of relationship you have, if you are married or not and who to. If a person indicates that someone is a brother, sister, cousin etc, and that person isn’t QF would have grounds to reject them, because that is quantifiable, but whether you are in a relationship or not isn’t.

mannej

QF

Member since 21 May 2014

Total posts 174

I didn’t mention illegal, you did, and completely irrelevant, plain and simple Qantas do not have the right to ask someone to prove that a person is in a relationship with someone else, it does not have a right to ask what sort of relationship you have, if you are married or not and who to. If a person indicates that someone is a brother, sister, cousin etc, and that person isn’t QF would have grounds to reject them, because that is quantifiable, but whether you are in a relationship or not isn’t.

Whilst you may have not mentioned it directly, you are inferring they are discriminating illegally.


FWIW, the option is Domestic Partner/De facto, and from what I have read on here and on AFF, QF are only asking for a stat dec. Considering the generic nature of the title, I believe you are making a mountain out of a mole hill.

GBRGB

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 21 Jan 2014

Total posts 267

Yes perhaps I am and the point you make is valid, my original comment was made in regards to the difficulty of trying the define a relationship in this day, why would a company bother, just let it slide and move on, but you are correct in that as long as QF ask every person to make the stat dec, then no discrimination exists.

AT

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 14 Sep 2012

Total posts 16

Oh for goodness sake get real, the QFF program is for members to enjoy and extending points to your close family and friends is acceptable, on-selling your points in a commercial capacity to all and sundry is not in the spirit of the program and I’d be surprised if legitimate status members thought so.

cooper81

BA Gold

Member since 01 Apr 2012

Total posts 75

Sorry if a little OT but kind of along the same lines....something that I find absolutely incredulous about domestic travel in OZ (well with QF anyway) and that i've not witnessed anywhere else in the world is the ability to get onboard an aircraft without once showing any form of ID.


Which has made me wonder - how many people (OW Emerald card holders) are booking travel for friends and family on QF in the FF cardholders name? For example, I am BA Gold (OW Emerald). I know I could easily book a reservation for my dad/friend/brother in my name....they get the perks (lounge, fast track security), I get the Tier Points and Avios.

I've never done it but surely it must go on. It would be so easy to do and the chances of being caught doing it are virtually zero.

brettepi

Member since 10 Jul 2017

Total posts 86

whats next, they will force us to finish our meals before being allowed to leave the plane ?

brettepi

Member since 10 Jul 2017

Total posts 86

I didn’t mention illegal, you did, and completely irrelevant, plain and simple Qantas do not have the right to ask someone to prove that a person is in a relationship with someone else, it does not have a right to ask what sort of relationship you have, if you are married or not and who to. If a person indicates that someone is a brother, sister, cousin etc, and that person isn’t QF would have grounds to reject them, because that is quantifiable, but whether you are in a relationship or not isn’t.

exactly. we dont ask alan joyce who he is dating every time he wants to fly

tommygun

Delta Air Lines - SkyMiles

Member since 16 Oct 2017

Total posts 172

It looks like I'll be in the minority here, but it seems to me FF points are a currency. One that Qantas, and others, set the exchange rate at their discretion. The points have been earned by loyalty sure, but they have still been earned not given away. So why should the program place any restriction on how the currency is spent. If it's "in your pocket" you should get to spend it or donate it at your discretion.

PK

Member since 03 May 2012

Total posts 56

The points are acquired or “earned” (if that word makes people feel better) pursuant to a contractual relationship. The terms of that relationship dictate the use that may be made of the points. Quite extraordinary how many of the comments deny that basic fact, commenting on purported “discrimination” and alleging a freely transacted “currency”. Some time ago, the terms were amended to extend to family members, as defined. They can be further extended or confined with the consent of the parties. Absent any statutory intervention, take it or leave it as the contract provides. If you wish to agitate for a change to the contract, do so. Defending the notion of deliberately breaching the contract for commercial gain is not my preferred option.

brinkers

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 16 Jun 2011

Total posts 227

It looks like I'll be in the minority here, but it seems to me FF points are a currency. One that Qantas, and others, set the exchange rate at their discretion. The points have been earned by loyalty sure, but they have still been earned not given away. So why should the program place any restriction on how the currency is spent. If it's "in your pocket" you should get to spend it or donate it at your discretion.

As it stands, Loyalty Programs in Australia have been granted relief from some of the provisions of the Corporations Act, as ASIC has declared that they are not Non Cash Financial products.

The last thing anyone wants would be the regulator to decide that they were financial products - as that would then create a whole host of regulatory burdens on the program (licensing, compliance, reporting, etc)

maabbot

Member since 06 Feb 2014

Total posts 10

It looks like I'll be in the minority here, but it seems to me FF points are a currency. One that Qantas, and others, set the exchange rate at their discretion. The points have been earned by loyalty sure, but they have still been earned not given away. So why should the program place any restriction on how the currency is spent. If it's "in your pocket" you should get to spend it or donate it at your discretion.

I agree. Transferring points does not diminish their value their supply remains constant. The reality is your ability to transfer REDUCES the value of Qantas "creating" credits and selling them. In essence the only way to secure points other than through flying is buying them from Qantas, or collecting them through a vendor (ie credit card company) who has. Why is this important? It makes commercial sense for Qantas to restrict transfer of credits as it:

1. Increases the value of credits they create and sell;
2. By making it harder to transfer, it makes it likely less points are used which in essence delays redemption and impacts on their financial accounts.

Is this fair - they are your points? I'd argue not.

kimshep

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

Member since 11 Oct 2014

Total posts 375

"The last thing anyone wants would be the regulator to decide that they were financial products - as that would then create a whole host of regulatory burdens on the program (licensing, compliance, reporting, etc)"

With all due respect Brinkers, would this really be such a "bad" thing? Perhaps, it would force airlines to be much more transparent on the 'availability' of awards, let alone their points pricing to third party providers such as banks, credit card companies, supermarkets etc. In QF's case as an example, one can't fail to notice the annual continuous and expanding profitability of the FF division. This is not to suggest that QF shouldn't be able to make a profit on what is a very effective marketing tool but ..

Whilst FF points might not currently fit ASIC's definition of a 'non-financial' product, there is no doubt in my mind - and that of many others - that they are indeed Australia's largest de-facto second currency. A term often used in and coined by the financial press, no less. When 12.3m people (more than half the population) hold membership and points in the most dominant one, a substantial degree of transparency may be appropriate.

Whilst others have correctly stated that "this is the terms of the contract", it would be interesting to see how legally enforceable this would be. Contract wording is always open to a valid court challenge, particularly when and where the definition of 'ownership' is concerned.

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