Paris match? Qantas plots next non-stop Boeing 787 flights for 2019

By David Flynn, September 21 2018

Qantas could decide on the next European destination for non-stop Boeing 787 flights from Perth as early as March 2019, with Paris a front-runner for the direct Dreamliner flights from Perth.

Those flights may not begin until late 2019 or early 2020, after Qantas picks up the keys to six additional Dreamliners, but CEO Alan Joyce says that strong bookings on the Perth-London Boeing 787 flight give him confidence to push another pin into the Dreamliner's network map.

During a visit to the UK this week, Joyce revealed average occupancy on the Perth-London service at 94% in business class and 92% in economy class, reports The Australian Financial Review.

"We've been really amazed at how well the service has been received," Joyce remarked. "That's unheard of on a new route."

Joyce later told The Australian Financial Review that the decision to add new direct flights to Europe from Perth could be taken as early as March next year.

Paris and Frankfurt on the shortlist

Joyce has previously talked up the prospects of a Paris-bound Dreamliner (or should that be Seineliner?) and in late 2017 revealed to Australian Business Traveller "for the first time we have daily rights for Paris."

"Last time we were in Paris we only could do three days a week, which made it sub-economical and meant that we weren’t attracting the business market, but now that has changed," Joyce said on the sidelines of the delivery ceremony for the first Qantas Boeing 787.

Joyce added that he hoped to see a third non-stop Dreamliner flight into Germany, with Frankfurt – which the airline previously flew via Singapore before axing the route in 2013 – sitting on the shortlist.

"Germany is still a big market and it's been hard for us in the past when we were flying through a hub, so the opportunity there is actually quite real."

With the second tranche of Dreamliners also serving to put the last Qantas Boeing 747s out to pasture, the advanced jets could be based in Sydney and thus offer a Sydney-Perth-Paris Boeing 787 service, along the same lines as the current Melbourne-Perth-London service.

Perth-Johannesburg also to return?

There's also evidence of a thawing out in the recently-frosty relationship between Qantas and Perth Airport over which terminal would host Qantas' future international flights.

Qantas wants to capitalise on its investment in an 'international wing' at the otherwise-domestic T3, while the airport has been pushing for the airline to step up its use of the current T1 international terminal.

This stand-off saw Qantas put future international services from Perth on hold, which – as Australian Business Traveller exclusively reported in June this year – saw Qantas scrap planned flights between Perth and Johannesburg.

"We had planned to operate a seasonal service this November to March, which would have put about 4,000 passengers a week through Perth," Alison Webster, CEO of Qantas International, told Australian Business Traveller.

"We couldn’t operate it through Terminal 3 where the aircraft would in fact come in (from a domestic flight) and turn around, and towing (from T1) would make it completely logistically not okay."

David

David Flynn is the Editor-in-Chief of Executive Traveller and a bit of a travel tragic with a weakness for good coffee, shopping and lychee martinis.

Chris_PER

Chris_PER

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

19 Feb 2014

Total posts 451

Surely BNE-PER-CDG would be more logical, to rotate the aircraft along the lines of CDG-PER-BNE-LAX, seeing as SYD doesn't have international 787 service.

David

David

24 Oct 2010

Total posts 2337

As the article says, next Qantas Boeing 787s will also replace Boeing 747s, which means Sydney may well end up as a Dreamliner base, with Boeing 787s heading out to Los Angeles and San Francisco (not to mention other current jumbo routes).

cgoman

cgoman

29 Mar 2018

Total posts 4

I believe Qantas has already announced 787 flights from SYD to HKG starting around March 30.

Himeno

Himeno

12 Dec 2012

Total posts 931

and if the US DOT signs off on the QF/AA joint venture, expect to see the 787s pulled from HKG and sent to North America.

AT

AT

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

14 Sep 2012

Total posts 260

Sounds great. Wonder why QF doesn't considered other Europe oneworld hubs (other than London of course), and this is absolutely no criticism of Paris or Frankfurt, both key global cities that QF should feature at. Any insiders that could give feedback?

alex_upgrade77

alex_upgrade77

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

08 Sep 2012

Total posts 244

When Air Berlin was growing and the opening of the new Berlin Airport anticipated, it was expected that Berlin would be the next QF European destination (via Dubai, then). Especially as it wasn't already served by Emirates. That's all changed. Iberia's Madrid hub could make sense but depends if demand supports it. Remember that Madrid is on the western tip of Europe and further away from most continental destinations than London is. So why fly to MAD when you can fly to LHR? I suspect that Qantas may expand its relationship with Air France if they fly into Paris and codeshare of some AF regional flights. Doubt that would happen with Lufthansa though.

steeleg

steeleg

QF NZ

28 Jul 2013

Total posts 27

This sounds quite wonderful, but CDG, not exactly the best airport in the world.

Talking of replacing the B747s which we all lived on for years, how will QF manage SYD - JNB, does ETOPS now allow this journey.

Eli

Eli

30 Jul 2015

Total posts 90

People are not traveling to Paris to visit the airport ;-). Also, SYD is hardly a prize!

john wayne

john wayne

23 Mar 2018

Total posts 21

The only reason the flights are so full is because all bookings to Europe are automatically assigned to the Perth flts unless specifically requested otherwise.

SYDINI

SYDINI

16 Jan 2018

Total posts 70

I’ve just done a search on ex SYD/BNE/MEL to LON and it gives ex BNE via SYD/MEL/SIN, out of MEL via PER/SYD/SIN and out if SYD via SIN/PER. There doesn’t seem to be any preferential routing on offer. Just listed as quickest to longest travel times

PERflyer

PERflyer

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

15 Aug 2017

Total posts 82

That is not correct. In any case 75% of the plane is full of pax either starting or finishing their journey in Perth. Let’s celebrate some great new profitable and full routes with more to come for a change.

AWA2602

AWA2602

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

29 Jul 2013

Total posts 209

That's not the case at all. I just booked a flight from MEL to LHR for travel in December and was given options via PER and SIN on QF metal all the way, via SIN on QF metal from MEL to SIN and then on BA metal from SIN to LHR and via DXB on EK metal all the way. Sale and discounted J Class fares were obviously significantly lower for the all QF metal options, but the fully flexible J class fares were much closer across all three options.

cgoman

cgoman

29 Mar 2018

Total posts 4

Not true at all. London flight ex Sydney has been full nearly everyday for the last few months.

jawnbc

jawnbc

NZ

16 Oct 2015

Total posts 10

Paris is fab; CDG is maddeningly French.

Nick Sydney 2

Nick Sydney 2

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

22 Jul 2015

Total posts 223

Indeed but I quite like the idea of a Paris stop and then the train to London

Concorde

Concorde

05 Apr 2017

Total posts 3

Are these loads really surprising ? QF 9 (via DXB or SIN) used to be an A380 which was downsized to a 787 when switched to a PER stop. One could say that it is a little more complex than that, but surely this downgauging is the primary reason.

PERflyer

PERflyer

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

15 Aug 2017

Total posts 82

What is interesting though out of the 92-94% load 75% are starting and finishing in Perth. Are MEL-LHR pax now filtering onto QF1 Via SIN or SYD or on EK metal etc? Although Perth based I have flown QF10 LHR-PER-MELand if in business it gives a superior sleeping experience think 8-10 hours uninterrupted after the service. No wake up for breakfast etc 2 hours out after only a 4 hour kip.

AT

AT

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

14 Sep 2012

Total posts 260

Good point PERflyer, where have the MELLON O&D pax from the legacy QF9/10 (A380 via DXB) all gone? Have they just moved to EK or QF via SIN?

Concorde

Concorde

05 Apr 2017

Total posts 3

PERflyer - good question. Perhaps they went to SQ, offering four departure times per day.

PERflyer

PERflyer

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

15 Aug 2017

Total posts 82

Certainly a good option along with CX and the awesome HK lounges.

elchriss0

elchriss0

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

13 Jan 2015

Total posts 581

4 days a week SQ offer a 5th daily option which continues to WLG.

Traveller14

Traveller14

17 Sep 2015

Total posts 391

Currently SQ has a fifth flight ex MEL on (from memory) four days a week, so demand must be very good.

Is PER - LHR really profitable for QF? It ought to have load factors above 92 per cent in Y due to downsizing of QF9/10 from an A380 to a B789. The number of economy seats in particular is far fewer.

maabbot

maabbot

06 Feb 2014

Total posts 92

Just did the flight to London - all classes on both legs were full and the flight was wonderful. Highly recommended!

Windyhill

Windyhill

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

27 Nov 2015

Total posts 4

A Sydney base for crew on the 787 is opening well before the 747's are completely phased out, but as yet no proposed flying from the base has been announced.

DGP

DGP

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

17 Jan 2012

Total posts 170

You forgot the HKG flights QF announced from Sydney on B789.

thecypercop

thecypercop

QF

04 Oct 2013

Total posts 11

What about the fact that Qantas is stopping the Dreamliner in PER and putting MEL pax onto a domestic 737 (not event the 330) for the flight across the country. Sub standard, no flat beds not acceptable if you have purchased a business seat LHR - MEL

PERflyer

PERflyer

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

15 Aug 2017

Total posts 82

It’s happened twice once for a break down in London of the band new ZNF and second time due to Admirably turning back to Perth to offload a unruly pax. How else could they get back to schedule and we know not many pax are continuing on to MEL with majority getting off in Perth. Totally non issue and happened twice.

thecypercop

thecypercop

QF

04 Oct 2013

Total posts 11

Waste of money to pay Business then be offloaded to a domestic flight. Inferior food, drink seat and not a flat bed. Would never risk it again, much prefer the A380 which you can still do via Singapore again.

Alexaqua

Alexaqua

14 Feb 2012

Total posts 37

Let me get this right, you would prefer to fly the old skybed in the A380 because there is a minuscule chance you may end up on a 737 for 4 hours. More power to you!

I'd personally take the 787 over the A380 every time, plus the new business seat in the QF 787 kills the old skybed!!

Rav

Rav

18 Aug 2017

Total posts 40

I just took the A380 to Singapore and it was brilliant and you are saying the 787 is even better than that?

PERflyer

PERflyer

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

15 Aug 2017

Total posts 82

In business class it is for sure. 1-2-1 and a ten year newer product. If in y or premium y and not starting in Perth/Mel/Adelaide go the 380.

hutch

hutch

07 Oct 2012

Total posts 1229

A380's break down too.

John Phelan

John Phelan

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

28 Oct 2011

Total posts 323

…..much more often than the 787s!!

kabe100

kabe100

30 Aug 2017

Total posts 35

show me the data....

I know how many times SYD-DFW flight gets delayed because of A380 breakdowns..

mannej

mannej

QF

21 May 2014

Total posts 24

QF aren't stopping the 787 in PER, it was response to 2 delays (one being the turn-around due to the ill behaved pax). I agree that it isn't up to chop if QF were doing that on a regular basis, it is a bit of an overreaction to accuse QF of doing this deliberately without reason.

thecypercop

thecypercop

QF

04 Oct 2013

Total posts 11

NO my flight terminated in PER with 15 days notice!!! (not really notice i realised it by checking my account)

Bavarian

Bavarian

23 Aug 2012

Total posts 33

If I had say, MUC makes a lot nicer airport to fly in than FRA - locals would avoid FRA whenever possible, because it's a mess.

Having said that: CDG is even worse.

rowwdy

rowwdy

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

21 Mar 2013

Total posts 137

Zurich would be another good central and well-connected option. Great little airport, and you’re guaranteed your connection would be on time...

Bavarian

Bavarian

23 Aug 2012

Total posts 33

ZRH would be an excellent option, albeit not a OneWorld hub. Which FRA is neither.

Someone mentioned AMS, which is well organised.

But CDG and FRA, they'd be on par with BCN and MAD, a horrible mess.

Even LHR got it's annoyance with the need to transfer from T3 to T5 to connect on BA and the sometimes a bit lengthy waits at the security check-points. But however complains about them hasn't seen FRA's airport rush hour, where even fast lane security means to wait in line for an hour.

If I was going to continental Europe as an airline on a prestige flight, I'd choose a nice and clean airport that's well organised.

Rufus1

Rufus1

04 Dec 2013

Total posts 122

Only if you're going to MUC or certain LH connections (MUC is better for some of the more obscure cities in eastern and southern Europe). FRA offers much better rail connections to anywhere in northern/western Germany, Benelux and the full suite of LH destinations - and the region is a huge O&D market in itself.

anthonylpaul

anthonylpaul

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

28 Nov 2014

Total posts 6

Hopefully Perth / Tokyo is on the radar for Qantas??

PERflyer

PERflyer

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

15 Aug 2017

Total posts 82

I don’t think so. More likely a 4 weekly Perth to Tokyo from JAL if anything with 787.

worldwanderer

worldwanderer

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

13 Jan 2017

Total posts 71

If hope that FRA is not on the radar. Been through there 4 times in the last 18 months and was a total shambles all four times. disorganised mess. Plenty of better options into Europe

Nick Sydney 2

Nick Sydney 2

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

22 Jul 2015

Total posts 223

Not much is spoken about Schipol but it's an easy place to get around and head to other parts of Europe from there. Occasionally will use EK to get there and a cheapo flight to Luton as it's 15 mins from my family and avoids the purgatory that is heathrow

whoppersandwich

whoppersandwich

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

11 Dec 2017

Total posts 43

The recent (albeit minor) tie up with Air France is a de facto partnership with KLM too. I wouldn’t be surprised if we hear about an AMS arrangement as more Dreamliners get delivered!

tomJ

tomJ

02 Nov 2017

Total posts 35

FRA could work really well if there's an agreement with LH to connect onwards with them. Doubt that would happen though.

Alexaqua

Alexaqua

14 Feb 2012

Total posts 37

I really think it is amazing how all the naysayers who attacked Qantas as being completely stupid for considering the Perth / London route have all apologised. It really shows maturity! Who would have thought Qantas route planners would have a better idea of what would work than a bunch of armchair experts.

MattJelonek

MattJelonek

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

08 Jun 2014

Total posts 222

Flew PER to LHR last week. Best thing that could have happened to travel. Slept 10 of the 17 hours and BAM, you're in London! CDG, bring it on.

draper

draper

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

02 May 2014

Total posts 9

Meanwhile on the other side of the globe Air Canada is dominating the Melbourne / Sydney / Brisbane direct flights to Vancouver with their 787 777 aircraft. Q. Will we see a Qantas 787 on the MELBOURNE Vancouver route? A more relaxed entry into North America!

anthony watts

anthony watts

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

29 Mar 2015

Total posts 80

Couldnt agree more. Air Canada (consistently rated "best airline in north america, which tells you all you need to know) is doing very well trans Pac, while qantas offers seasonal to YVR or via LAX. Direct to Calgary, or radically work with Fiji Air to fly australia/ Nadi to Toronto, giving Canadians another way out of the cold!

Zaps1971

Zaps1971

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

18 Aug 2014

Total posts 76

Did Alan walk into economy class to see or ask anyone how they felt to have to sit for 15 hours with there knees in ther mouth and how comfortable they really are ?

Stefanos

Stefanos

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

22 Sep 2018

Total posts 1

We need a 787 flight Melbourne to Athens direct.

I travel this route often enough and always see a lot of people on the both of the flights on Emirates/Etihad/Qatar. There's lots of Greek people in Melbourne and lots of Aussies go there for holidays.

Stathis

Stathis

22 Sep 2018

Total posts 1

Stefanos, can't fill business class to ATH so it won't happen, but you could fill a single class economy on a daily basis, and take the majority of the traffic on that route from the ME3 and Scoot. Wasn't Jetstar supposed to do ATH for QF.

Steve987

Steve987

23 Feb 2015

Total posts 255

If Jetstar 787 could do Mel-Ath I’d be on it tomorrow in their Business (premium economy). My guess though is that they make too much cash off the Bali run, given the higher frequency, to do it.

MRYJDrake

MRYJDrake

Air New Zealand - Airpoints

31 Oct 2016

Total posts 70

Maybe we could ask Sri Lankan if they want to do that, it's a nice mid-spot on the way

djtech

djtech

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

02 Sep 2018

Total posts 106

It would be smart for Qantas to tap into some of the European Oneworld hubs like Helsinki and Madrid. But Paris makes sense both as a destination and connection to strengthen their special relationship with Air France. No doubt will see more codeshare opportunities. That would give them a second way for passengers to connect throughout Europe after London with BA and qf 1 and 9

simulate

simulate

15 Nov 2016

Total posts 18

Really? Seineliner? Surely Frankfurt am Mainliner is much better.

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