Qantas eyes non-stop Boeing 787 flights to Paris, Rome, Berlin
By David Flynn, April 27 2017
Qantas has pegged Paris, Rome and Berlin as the next non-stop routes for the airline's Boeing 787 network.
The flights would all fly via Perth, leveraging the WA capital's role as a new international hub for Qantas following the launch of non-stop flights between Perth and London.
This would also maximise investment in converting part of Qantas' domestic Perth terminals to support international services, including dedicated customs and immigration along with an all-new Qantas Perth International Lounge.
Qantas will reveal more details on its Perth domestic-international transit experience in May.
Qantas CEO Alan Joyce tells The West Australian that flights from Perth to Berlin, Rome and Paris are on the airline's radar.
Those flights will rely on the second wave of Boeing 787s due from mid-2018 to mid-2019, as the airline's first four Dreamliners – which will arrive between mid-October 2017 and late February 2018 – will be dedicated to the Melbourne-Los Angeles and Perth-London routes.
The growing Boeing 787 fleet will also see Qantas retire five of its iconic but ageing Boeing 747 jumbo jets.
David Flynn is the Editor-in-Chief of Executive Traveller and a bit of a travel tragic with a weakness for good coffee, shopping and lychee martinis.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
10 Apr 2013
Total posts 388
So it looks like then the last 6 B747ER will hang around for a bit be be replaced with either B777-8 or A350ULR.
Air New Zealand - Airpoints
23 May 2013
Total posts 45
Paris yes, Rome maybe but Berlin? That seems strange and I can't imagine its an especially premium heavy destination. Would have thought Frankfurt for sure before Berlin.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
06 Nov 2014
Total posts 368
I suspect it's because TXL is the hub for AB, which is a OW partner vs FRA which is a LH hub for star alliance.
12 May 2015
Total posts 5
Perhaps in the absence of much one stop competition from east coast to Berlin, QF may expect to carve out a niche that may actually yield highly if coupled with good east coast connections (SQ, CX, EK etc. don't serve/ in some circumstances cannot get air rights to serve TXL whereas many airlines serve the more competitive FRA)
27 Apr 2017
Total posts 2
Berlin is the most visited city in Europe after London and Paris. And a boom-City! It makes sense!
27 Apr 2017
Total posts 1
By the time the second tranche of 787s arrive, I suspect Air Berlin will be long gone. I'd have thought FRA, even though it's a Star hub, would've made more sense. It's the financial centre of Germany, and they previously flew there for many years ( not always a guarantee of success, of course).
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
28 Oct 2011
Total posts 424
QF axed FRA because it was a loss-making route, according to AJ. I think out of CDG, TXL or FCO, TXL is the one that actually is the most interesting and has the most potential in the long-term.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
15 Aug 2012
Total posts 175
It was probably not profitable because it was serviced by 747's, Dreamliner being a lot more efficient and less seats to fill changes the economics considerably.
24 Aug 2011
Total posts 856
Berlin will only be an option once TXL is replaced by the new but much delayed Berlin Airport. TXL is a terrible place not worthy to be part of a great city like Berlin. It is a true time warp to visit this place. It is like something out of the '70s.
06 Jan 2015
Total posts 69
I can only assume where possible, people who are QFF's would rather fly on qantas metal as they cannot upgrade via points on EK?
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
22 Jul 2015
Total posts 223
Yes. Exactly that. Don't mind Dubai in the least but prefer QF where possible
Air New Zealand - Airpoints
23 May 2013
Total posts 45
Haha funny you say that the same day they cut MEL-DXB
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
28 Oct 2011
Total posts 424
Well QF cannot fly non-stop to Europe from BNE, SYD or MEL - the range is too great for the aircraft (as things stand at the moment). If they're going to do non-stops, they basically have to be ex PER or DRW.
27 Apr 2017
Total posts 1
We do have BA in Oneworld for European connections from a rather congested LHR.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
09 Sep 2013
Total posts 180
Dusseldorf is also a OW hub. Only used it once, incoming, and we were at the pointy end and our bags were first off, so had little opportunity to check the place out fully. The city itself is also well located, and a nice visit.
Qantas - QFF Platinum
20 Mar 2012
Total posts 214
There are a lot of restrictions into Berlin, especially with services by ME3 so its a bit of an untapped market for not just oneworld but for airline services heading East.
Qatar Airways
04 Apr 2014
Total posts 26
I think Berlin could be a real smart move. Obviously it would need to be once Brandenburg is up and running, but given its development as a Leisure / Business hub and the as yet unknown consequences of Brexit, especially with regard to development of alternative finance hubs, it might have legs, especially if oneworld or a.n.other partner hub there.
11 Dec 2015
Total posts 88
Berlin is also a nice starting point if you're going into Eastern Europe.
03 Mar 2016
Total posts 14
FCO? Doubtful. Not much premium traffic there and zero connection opportunities on that end. The Italian economy isn't performing so don't see this doing well. CDG is a maybe, but again there isn't much connecting opportunity there as CDG is a Sky Team hub. TXL? Strange choice. Yes, it's a hub for Air Berlin, but as others have said, its quite possible AB will not survive or eventually be absorbed into Lufthansa. Then what? Madrid would seem more logical. IB is a stronger carrier now than it has ever been and has a decent route map which could allow for good connections throughout the continent, though with some back tracking due to geography.
Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
08 Jun 2014
Total posts 255
PER to CDG.... oh my!!!!
06 Feb 2014
Total posts 119
Berlin makes a lot of sense as Emirates (Qantas Code share) ) is currently restricted from flying there and it's an air berlin hub. Might not be enough traffic but one could think the QF9 metal could move from DXB-London to DXB Berlin...
20 May 2015
Total posts 588
This is very surprising but somewhat understandable in a way; PER will become QF's European hub effectively. I presume QF will try and pick the 'best' destinations yield-wise and rely on business traffic, and thus the lower-yielding traffic gets put on EK.
I wonder what this means for Qantas First though. I presume they won't abolish it completely but these direct services to Europe will all lack it.
05 May 2016
Total posts 602
These services are a stop gap till QF can fly direct from MEL and SYD to LHR and JFK. Which is rumoured to be as soon as 5 years away (but I suspect it probably will be longer). If the oil price is very high then that would be one likely cause of a delay. The heavier a plane is the more fuel it needs to burn. The further a plane needs to fly all else being equal the more fuel is required. Sure ultra long range planes will become more fuel efficient, but so will planes used on shorter routes.
Once QF can do East Coast to LHR and JFK if the planes they use to fly those direct non-stop flights don't have some F seats then it'll be clear that QF is exiting the F market.
Once QF can fly direct from the East Coast to LHR and JFK I suspect the 787s will mostly/all get moved away from PER onto other routes e.g. perhaps more from MEL/SYD to West Coast of the US.
Emirates Airlines - Skywards
11 Mar 2015
Total posts 191
Probably Perth is much cheaper to tank up before the long flight to any Eu destinations than Dubai,hence QF can save lot of dough by running all it's EU destinations via homeland.But the sad thing is that their price is not compatible with the arabs-hence rather fly with airlines that offer better value for money
05 Dec 2013
Total posts 36
I really don't see Berlin or Rome being clever decisions if they come to fruition. Paris makes sense though. Also wonder how many additional US routes they will try to open up after the second batch of screamliners are received.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
18 Dec 2016
Total posts 33
Well I'm glad Qantas is bringing back more international services to Perth.
15 Sep 2012
Total posts 92
Cant se Perth being a successful hub given flying times from East Coast comb8ned with 17 hours to Europe! Qantas should return to hubbing in Singapore. 787s could fly from Adelaide, Canberra, Brisbane with 737s from regional centres like Townsville, Darwin and Broome. A380s from Sydney and melbourne thru to London and Frankfurt. 787s thru to India, Africa, mid east and Europe. Several hours less flying time. Qantas did this successfully for years until deal with Emirates! No reason cant do it again. Would be popular with average Australian citizen who sees Perth as out of the way and not on the route to europe.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
08 Aug 2016
Total posts 59
out of interest, how is this compelling for Melbourne based platinum flyers or First flyers?
05 May 2016
Total posts 602
These are the hardest hit by these changes. It's unfortunate that QF doesn't value their MEL premium passengers as highly as their SYD ones.
05 May 2016
Total posts 602
I wonder where these extra 787s will fly to on the East Coast (if at all), whether to MEL or SYD and if they'll fly onto a US destination e.g. LAX, SFO, DFW etc. to help minimise the time they spend on the ground.
Would be nice to have a MEL-SFO service again. Perhaps if QF had a few flights a day to SFO (one from SYD and one from MEL) they could justify arranging a better lounge offering than unreliable access to CX lounges where "capacity constraints" are routinely used as an excuse to deny entry.
27 Apr 2017
Total posts 2
Berlin is a good choice! Most visited town in Europe after London and Paris!
Qantas
13 Jun 2015
Total posts 143
Reasons why Berlin is a good city to fly from Australia
QFF
12 Apr 2013
Total posts 1446
IMHO great news - QF will be better off to diversify destinations using smaller plane as B787. And hopefully it will bring to the end "partnership" between QF and EK.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
21 Aug 2014
Total posts 513
I think since EK doesn't have the rights for TXL, QF should perhaps do MEL-HKG-TXL or something of that type and that way could absorb all the Aussie customers along with those connecting from CX. Not sure how this would play out but QF have a real chance at stepping all over EK and CX on this one.
12 Dec 2012
Total posts 1006
If the 2nd batch of 787s are used for new routes, instead of existing routes, they are not going to be able to replace the last 3 744s without cutting other routes.
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