It’s Airbus vs Boeing in Qantas’ order for over 100 new jets

The massive domestic fleet renewal program could be worth as much as $14 billion at list price.

By David Flynn, October 5 2021
It’s Airbus vs Boeing in Qantas’ order for over 100 new jets

  • Over 100 new jets for Qantas regional and domestic services from end of 2023
  • Airbus A320neo vs Boeing 737 MAX to replace Boeing 737-800s
  • Airbus A220 vs Embraer E-Jet E2 to replace Boeing 717s

Qantas will order more than 100 new jets in a sweeping upgrade of its domestic fleet, with Airbus, Boeing and Embraer all vying for a share of the lucrative and highly prestigious contract.

The airline is seeking to renew its primary Boeing 737 jet workforce along with part of its regional QantasLink fleet, taking advantage of a Covid-driven slump in jet sales to nail down the best price.

Although first deliveries would begin in late 2023, the extensive program – which Qantas has dubbed Project Winton, after the airline's birthplace in outback Queensland – would stretch through to 2034.

"It's only once in a generation you go through a major fleet renewal like this," said Qantas Group CEO Alan Joyce. "This is a really strategic decision for our future."

While aircraft deliveries and payments would be spread across ten years, "the equally long lead time means we need to make these decisions soon."

Qantas Group CEO Alan Joyce is looking to the future of the domestic fleet.
Qantas Group CEO Alan Joyce is looking to the future of the domestic fleet.

In the wake of Covid, Joyce maintains "there aren't many airlines around the world in a position to place orders for new aircraft... we know travel demand will rebound quickly and right now we're in a strong position to secure the best possible deal at very good prices."

Qantas has shortlisted the Airbus A220 and A320neo, Boeing 737 MAX and Embraer E-Jet E2 families for its new domestic fleet.

These new-generation aircraft are not only more fuel-efficient than the planes they're replacing, but are generally quieter and boast a modern design aesthetic which places increased focus on the passenger experience.

Based on an order of 100 jets split between the regional and mainline fleets, the prize could be worth around A$14 billion (US$10 billion) at average list prices, although airlines typically see discounts of over 40% off the sticker.

It's a once-in-a-generation opportunity for the winning aircraft manufacturer, but the clock is ticking: Qantas expects to make its final decision by the end of 2021, and place firm orders by mid-2022 for first delivery some 18 months after.

However, replacing those 75 Boeing 737s and 20 Boeing 717s won't necessarily be a like-for-like swap.

The varying models in each jet family offers flexibility in the final mix, which will also need to "allow room for the growth that we expect over the next decade and beyond," Qantas Group CFO Vanessa Hudson allowed.

"The mix of aircraft we're considering means we’ll have more operational flexibility," Joyce added, "which for customers translates into more direct routes to smaller regional centres and more choice of flights throughout the day."

Airbus A320neo vs Boeing 737 MAX

With 75 red-tailed Boeing 737-800s dominating Australian and short-range international routes, this is the main game – and the 'brass ring' prize for Airbus or Boeing as Qantas' workhorse for several decades to come.

Airbus will position its increasingly popular A320neo family – specifically the A320neo and A321neo – against the beleaguered Boeing 737 MAX (with the MAX 7, 8, 9 and 10 all under consideration).

The Airbus A320neo family could be the passenger's pick.
The Airbus A320neo family could be the passenger's pick.

Those six models span from 138 seats (Boeing 737 MAX 7) to 220 seats (Airbus A321neo) in a two-class layout, compared to the 174 seats of the Qantas Boeing 737-800s, giving the airline plenty of scope for 'right-sizing' – which could also mean upsizing from the 737-800 to the A321neo.

The A320neo and A321neo arguably offer a better experience for the traveller: while having a slightly wider cabin footprint than the Boeing 737 MAX (3.7m against 3.53m), the sense is one of greater overall space and 'roominess'.

The Airbus Airspace treatment on Lufthansa's latest A321neo.
The Airbus Airspace treatment on Lufthansa's latest A321neo.

Airbus' specialised Airspace cabin design for the A320neo series features slimmer sidewall panels for extra personal space at shoulder level, better views through the windows with redesigned bezels and completely integrated window shades, larger overhead bins for 60% more carry-on,  and new lavatories with hygienic touchless features and antimicrobial surfaces.

But there'd be significant operational costs in moving from the long-established Boeing 737 family to the Way of Airbus – and the airline's history and familiarity with the 737, which it's been flying since 1993 with the first 737-300, will make this more Boeing's deal to lose.

The Boeing 737 MAX has both history and a handicap.
The Boeing 737 MAX has both history and a handicap.

Yet Boeing is also burdened with the reputation of the MAX after the jet was grounded globally for almost two years, after two fatal crashes took the lives of 346 people.

Time – and doubtless, some customer surveys – will tell if passengers might still be cautious about stepping onto a Qantas Boeing 737 MAX in two years' time.

Airbus A220 vs Embraer E-Jet E2

The regional contest – to replace 20 ageing Boeing 717s – will be between the smaller Airbus A220 and the Embraer E2 series.

The A220 was specifically designed for the 100-150 seat market segment and has found favour with several North American and European airlines including Delta Air Lines, Air Canada, Swiss, Air France, JetBlue and US startup Breeze.

Alan Joyce likes everything about the Airbus A220, except for the price tag...
Alan Joyce likes everything about the Airbus A220, except for the price tag...

Joyce was noticeably impressed with the A220 during a Sydney demonstration flight in 2019, calling it "a great replacement to the Boeing 717 – not too dissimilar in configuration, but with a lot more overhead bin space, a lot more space in the cabin, even the toilets are big."

The Airbus A220 has a 2-3 seating layout.
The Airbus A220 has a 2-3 seating layout.

"It looks like a very good aircraft, it's very quiet, and I think passengers will love it," he told Executive Traveller.

About the only thing he wasn't  keen on was the price, which at the time listed at US$81-US$91.5 million.

"What Airbus has to get right is the pricing, it's priced very high, and for us to buy it it has to be a lot cheaper than the prices we've been seeing."

Read: Qantas could buy the A220, so here's what it's like to fly

Qantas is already flying the Embraer E190 on selected regional routes.
Qantas is already flying the Embraer E190 on selected regional routes.

However, the airline is now gaining first-hand operating experience with the Embraer E-Jet through its partnership with Alliance Airlines, which has added leased Embraer E190s to the QantasLink fleet.

Read: What it's like to fly on the new QantasLink Embraer E190

As a Boeing 717 replacement, Qantas has called out the second-gen E2 series: specifically the E190-E2 and the E195-E2, but not the smaller and still-delayed E175-E2.

While the Boeing 717 has 125 seats in a single-class build, the E190-E2 comes in at 'up to 114 seats', and the E195-E2 at 'up to 146 seats' – although this doesn't mean Qantas would drop business class from any E2s it buys.

Embraer's second-gen E2 family.
Embraer's second-gen E2 family.

Where the Airbus A321XLR fits in...

Qantas also holds an order for 36 of Airbus' extended-range A321XLR jets to be delivered from 2024, with the potential for these to be shared between Qantas and its low-cost arm Jetstar, but these are intended for more substantive international routes.

Although the order was placed by the Qantas Group, which encompasses current A321 stalwart Jetstar, group CEO Alan Joyce has left the door open to the A321XLRs joining the red-tailed Airbus A330 fleet for flights into Asia.

The Airbus A321XLR is also headed for Qantas' hangars.
The Airbus A321XLR is also headed for Qantas' hangars.

“We'll take a decision closer to the time about which parts of the Group will use these aircraft, but there is plenty of potential across Qantas and Jetstar," Joyce remarked when the order was inked in June 2019, adding that the A321XLRs could either replace older aircraft "or whether they are used for growth, which will depend on what’s happening in the market."

"It can fly routes like Cairns-Tokyo or Melbourne-Singapore, which existing narrow-bodies can't," Joyce said of the long-legged single-aisle jet, "and that changes the economics of lots of potential routes into Asia to make them not just physically possible but financially attractive."

More to follow... 

David

David Flynn is the Editor-in-Chief of Executive Traveller and a bit of a travel tragic with a weakness for good coffee, shopping and lychee martinis.

20 Jan 2017

Total posts 45

Bulk Airbus order please! A350 + A320neo + A220 would be great.

QF

11 Jul 2014

Total posts 697

Joyce being an accountant will be all about the cost and which option is cheaper, an engineer would be all about the reliability of an aircraft. I'm not saying Joyce is doing the wrong thing but he will make both of them squirm to get the contract.

06 Feb 2021

Total posts 37

Can I suggest you do some basic research before you post.  Joyce is not an Accountant, his initial qualifications are an Honours Degree in Applied Science, majoring in Physics and Mathematics, followed up by a Masters in Science Management.    

QF

11 Jul 2014

Total posts 697

@Ian J. His basic DNA is an accountant, he isn't a marketer, he isn't an engineer, no basic research required any one who penny pinches, carves any possible fat from the budget leaving raw meat has an accountant DNA. Joyce won't care about anything but the bottom line cost.

06 Feb 2021

Total posts 37

Complete bollocks.  You clearly have no real knowledge of the man, nor, for that matter, accounting.  How would you operate an airline, perhaps you'd prefer he modelled his management style on those who ran Alitalia.......  

QF

11 Jul 2014

Total posts 697

"Complete Bollocks" sounds like a used up solicitor trying to make his case to a jury of unworldly people with no substance or research into previous case rulings. 

06 Feb 2021

Total posts 37

Coming from someone who hadn't investigated Alan's qualifications before posting, and then claims being an accountant is in someone's DNA, rather than being a University level qualification, I'd suggest you are the one not doing your research.   The best known corporate heavy weight who took over management of companies, stripped out all the so called fat, as you allege Alan Joyce has done, and then left a skeleton of a company than in many cases collapsed soon after was " Chainsaw " Al Dunlop.  If you do some research on him, you'll find his qualification was in engineering.     

I'm not going to respond to any further of your posts, clearly you struggle with facts.   

He is an accountant, dollars and cents with a big fat cheque in his own pocket

Etihad - Etihad Guest

21 Jul 2019

Total posts 99

Just a tad less aggression and a wee bit of courtesy (even if you vehemently disagree someone) would go a long way indeed in lifting the tone of your discourse with @UpUpAnd Away. I assume we're all adults here? Virtual 'shouting matches' are the stuff of primary school yards, not Australia's premier business travel forum.

AJW
AJW

16 Nov 2011

Total posts 619

What nonsense. Orders are made considering all costs, which does include reliability, maintenance, crew costs etc.

Correct and the end result is the bottom line.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

11 Oct 2014

Total posts 676

In the 'smaller' frame area, it is not just the B717's that are being replaced. Reports are that the F-100's are also being replaced in this category too.

The timing is also 'interesting'. Pre-Covid, the program to quote and replace was always a certainty for late 2021. Given that much of the domestic fleet has been idled (with limited rotation) for the past 20 months, I would have assumed that this would have relieved some of the immediate pressure on CAPEX.

Surely, now is a good time to order (to theoretically receive best price), but if there's changed industry conditions and not many orders floating around, then those lead times shouldn't be anywhere near as long? 

In light of CAPEX issues and proposed wide body fleet acquisition (ie: Project Sunrise),  I'm particularly intrigued with the need to wrap this domestic order up by the end of 2021 - just 2 months away. Perhaps AJ might be trying to leverage the RyanAir 'walk-away' Boeing rejection to QF pricing advantage? 

Though AJ has stressed that a 'Project Sunrise' acquisition will be kept ring-fenced, it seems that there may be an inherently subtle hint that a 'bundled' deal from AB might be highly beneficial. After all, if Project Sunrise is to go ahead and take advantage of non-stop, Covid(less), point-to-point travel, you wouldn't want to lose the advantage of this past 2024.

The only question I see with this major re-fleeting exercise is what will happen with the existing Airbus order for all manner of A320/321 frames. Will they previously ordered frames ALL go to Jetstar for domestic fleet replacement and some small expansion - or will they be shared around the Jetstar subsidiaries, remembering that Jetstar Japan has repatriated some of their frames to Australia and that Jetstar Pacific (well, Vietnam anyway) no longer technically exists? 

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

05 Oct 2016

Total posts 71

I'd be surprised if it was cost effective to switch from 737s to 320... Pilots, crew, ground staff, training, parts. They will just play off Airbus to squeeze a good deal from Boeing. 

AJW
AJW

16 Nov 2011

Total posts 619

MKS11, they came close to changing to A320 in 2001. Word on the street at the time is Qantas had already signed a LOI that wasn't annouced to replace the 737-300/400's with A320's. But in the space of a week Ansett collapsed which meant Qantas needed extra planes fast, and of course 9/11 happened which meant US airlines were delaying deliveries. Hence Qantas ended up with AA spec 737-800's around 6 months later as they could be brought into service faster.

Also recall in 2001 Qantas brought Impulse, which became Jetconnex in the background before emerging as Jetstar. Which started taking delivery of A320's which were the ones that Qantas were rumored to have placed the LOI for.

And this time around also need to consider it is not just the 737's being replaced but the regional fleet too. So any crew conversion costs will be miminised by the need for a large portion of the fleet to change which will create scale. And also consider the possibly of moving what are currently mainline 737's services to A220 even A320 services operated by cheaper Qantas subsidiaries. In some ways this is already happening with 717's and the leased Alliance Embraers.

01 Aug 2019

Total posts 13

I would not be surprised if they pick the max as it would be cheaper to switch over than if it was with airbus they would have to retrain all staff.

AJW
AJW

16 Nov 2011

Total posts 619

What about the regional fleet? It isn't just a 737 replacement they are talking about.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

20 Jun 2019

Total posts 8

Will need to retrain pilots anyway for the Max. They will need extra work on how to keep the jet in the air....

Joe
Joe

03 May 2013

Total posts 643

Qantas would be morally bankrupt in choosing the 737 Max. Rewarding Boeing with an order for their murderous and criminal misadventure would be telling. 350 of our fellow travelers lost their lives because of Boeing.

01 Jul 2021

Total posts 17

Oh please don't order the death trap known as the Boeing 737 MAX

Etihad - Etihad Guest

21 Jul 2019

Total posts 99

I have no clue about the real cost side re Airbus/Boeing (which is undisclosed to us mere pax). I speak only as a pax. When I hit peak travel a few years ago with over 100 flights per year (I think 107 flights in 2018 was my record), both domestically and international, I really came to appreciate Airbus increasingly over Boeing in all aircraft types. Two factors stand out in favour of Airbus over Boeing (cabins 'feel' more spacious and engines are almost always more quiet. It probably won't, but I hope for Airbus.

05 Mar 2015

Total posts 339

Having flown on the A320neo and A220, count me as a fan of both. I like the E190 too but both of the Airbus offering strike me as more modern and more spacious. Going for the A320neo or A321neo would also give Qantas added differentiation against Virgin's Boeing 737 and 737 MAX fleets. Hopefully the lure of winning both the regional and mainline contests with the A220 and A320neo as a 'bulk buy' will spur Airbus onto making Qantas a deal that's too good to refuse, and it'll probably include throwing in some Airbus simulators for pilot training to help Qantas get over that unavoidable cost of retraining its 737 pilots.

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

24 Jan 2018

Total posts 517

"Hopefully the lure of winning both the regional and mainline contests with the A220 and A320neo as a 'bulk buy' will spur Airbus onto making Qantas a deal that's too good to refuse, and it'll probably include throwing in some Airbus simulators for pilot training .... "

Never a truer word, Squire.  I'm sure AJ has a way to monetize the marketing kudos that Airbus would get by snaring such an order, and build that discount into his expectations.  As for the added benefits to Qantas, they might include a 2 year supply of parts/consumables (ex-Airbus and Rolls Royce) located in Australia in a form of 'bonded warehouse', whereby Qantas pays for them only when pulled from store and put into metal.  I wonder whether there's another benefit from having such similar planes and the comparative ease of staffing with pilots, cabin crew and maintenance personnel - the respective EBAs and AAPA/TWU notwithstanding  (as if he'd let them!).  

Presume he'd keep the 787s in the fleet, if for no other reason than retaining competitive tension between A and B.  

United Airlines - Mileage Plus

12 Sep 2011

Total posts 227

If its Boeng (737MAX) I'm not going

31 Mar 2014

Total posts 374

Hope you like flying Jetstar then. If Qantas does go with the Max and with Virgin already committing to it, you won't have much of a choice when flying domestically.

United Airlines - Mileage Plus

12 Sep 2011

Total posts 227

A220  has a slightly (but not by much) larger toilet,  comparing UA E190 I've flown on IAD-LGA a few times and A220 I've flown many times ZRK-MXP

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

30 May 2013

Total posts 353

From a passenger experience point of view, an A320 and A220 order would be my preference. Fingers crossed!

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

24 Jan 2018

Total posts 517

I agree (but can we please keep that admission just between you and I?).

23 Oct 2014

Total posts 200

Yes I do hope you enjoy flying Jetstar on the A320 if QF choose the Max. On another note I doubt to date a Bus traveller in Australia has EVER booked a 320 over a 737 because it’s their “favourite” to say so is garbage. It’s booked on price, contract, departure time, FF allegiance - any other “strong preference” here for a 1 hr flight is rubbish. Think a few staff have views on here.

United Airlines - Mileage Plus

12 Sep 2011

Total posts 227

Will have to switch to jetstar  if its Maxx  Ive only ever flown them once - In EU  its A320 no problems for me   - I usually dont care which aircraft is flown   and I agree its more about FF allegiance.  However with the track record of the 737MAXX and the 777-9X I dont think i would feel safe if on these aircraft  

29 Jan 2020

Total posts 32

If tragically there is one more MAX crash…I wound not want a fleet of them!

Within Qantas group, Jetstar has loads of experience with 320, so it’s not like its all new type.

For Qantas link, to save on capex, I can see Qantas expanding the just started arrangement with Alliance to replace 717s

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

26 Nov 2012

Total posts 97

A truer word has never been spoken. Let’s hope there’s no more incidents, for everyone’s sake. 

gsx
gsx

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

14 Aug 2015

Total posts 35

Qantas always orders domestic fleet renewals when there is an industry low point, think it was during the gfc that Geoff Dixon places the order for the current 737-800’s at a very good discounted price to replace a lot of 737 300’s and 400’s 

So some 12 years later Allan is taking advantage of possible deals for domestic fleet replacement, but I admit the new of QR A350 fuselage issues kind of spooks me re the sunrise project. Does Boeing have similar issues with its 787 composite frames? 

06 Feb 2021

Total posts 37

Assuming Wikipedia is accurate, (never guaranteed,) there have been 440 Airbus A350's made, seventeen airlines around the world have them, but only one claims to have issues with the fuselage.  Unless their is something different about the paint used on the QR aircraft that is causing a reaction in the outer-skin, this " issue " seems a bit weird. 

QF

11 Jul 2014

Total posts 697

@Ian J. Bad news is bad news whether it is 1 only A350 or only 2 of the 737 MAXX, bad news is bad news. 

06 Feb 2021

Total posts 37

Very true, however we know what the bad news was with the 737MAX, an unmitigated tragedy, we don't know what the full issue is with the A350.  All we have so far is claims from QR of degradation in the fuselage which it appears, at this stage, no other airline has experienced.  Either everyone else has their head in the sand about a possible safety issue with the A350, which after the repercussions of the 737 issues I doubt, there is something different about the QR A350's from the others, which is possible depending on the chemical composition of the paint used, or, this is a tactic by AAB to try and negotiate a better deal on a planned purchase or similar.  Without more explanation, it just seems a bit weird.  If a second airline indicates at some point they've got the same issue, I would totally agree with you, Airbus will have a problem, but so far, there is no indication of that. 

QF

11 Jul 2014

Total posts 697

I had a choice 777 ER or A350 and I took the 777, I'm sure others will do the same until they now the facts.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

20 Jun 2019

Total posts 8

I prefer to think of it as nil A350 passengers dead and 346 B737 Max passengers dead... 

A very culpable and avoidable tragedy.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

05 Jun 2014

Total posts 210

The QF 737-800 deal was done prior to the GFC in the post 9/11 downturn. It came off the back of a big order cancellation from AA after travel demand fell off a cliff in the short-med term following.

gsx
gsx

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

14 Aug 2015

Total posts 35

thanks you i knew it was after s downturn, but it was smart purchasing at the time

AJW
AJW

16 Nov 2011

Total posts 619

12 years? Surely you mean 21? The 738's came in 2002 and were ordered in 2001 just after Ansett collapsed and 9/11 caused cancellation of AA orders.

C44
C44

15 Sep 2021

Total posts 4

The 737 replacement won't be a 320.  Interesting to see what the pick to replace the 717, my bet is the 220.

A nice big fat order of French built A320neo/A220/A350 is just what the diplomatic doctor has prescribed….not $90b but will ease the fury with the French. A380/A350/A330/A320/A220 allows Qantas to streamline their total product offer in every single division of the airline.

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

24 Jan 2018

Total posts 517

Economies of scale and similarity - can't beat them.

Qantas

02 May 2016

Total posts 60

With Sunrise already A350 and A321XLR currently on order plus existing A380/A330 fleet, hard to see QF replacing 737’s with anything other than MAX. Not sure it’s a great idea being broadly single sourced to Airbus across the fleet except for a dozen 787’s, Joyce will dangle the carrot to Airbus for sure though to extract best possible deal.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer P1

23 Aug 2014

Total posts 71

It is healthy normal human nature for passengers to be potentially fearful of the 73MAX whether this view is evidence-based or not; understanding this view and its potential impact on passengers rather than being dismissive or patronising of it demonstrates a lack of empathy on the part of some readers here

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

28 Oct 2011

Total posts 452

Most passengers have no idea what type of aircraft they're on, other than the difference between widebody and single aisle.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

11 Oct 2014

Total posts 676

Normally, I think that some small number of people might agree with you, John. However, given the eminent and continuous publicity that the B737-MAX grounding has attracted over the past two years, only those living under a rock or those that are totally aviation-averse would fail to be aware of Boeing's problems. For those of us that are industry-aware, it is clear that Boeing also have problems with the B777X series and also the (stalled) production of  the B787-9.

Remember, if Joe Pubic doesn't know what type of aircraft they're on (as you contend), they'll probably assume it's a B737 anyway, even if it has propeller engines or a second level with a lounge. Why? Because we're all so used to seeing that little red B737 graphic next to most short domestic sectors in the QF booking engine.

QF has been characterised by it's insistence on and pursuit of safety excellence over its entire existence. While the B737-MAX series might be kindly viewed as 'rehabilitated' by some, it is 'perception' that matters to airlines and their passengers. And the public perception of the MAX is not altogether that great.

When you add in Boeing's previous history of delivery delays on the 'L8-liner' and the effect that it had on QF's bottom line and planned expansion over the 3.5 years where they were expecting to be offering new B788/9 services, Qantas would be wise to possess a certain sense of 'awareness reality' about Boeing promises. The domestic market is QF's main bread and butter - and is a sector you don't want to find any ugly surprises on. 

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

11 Dec 2016

Total posts 67

What about the current A330's? They're coming up to their 20 year retirement date (Qantas benchmark I believe). Would have thought this would be included in their planning for a "good deal" at the same time.

gsx
gsx

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

14 Aug 2015

Total posts 35

News Reports are there is issues with paint causing cracking on QR A350's fuselage when searching on google which surfaced in June and led the grounding.   I would have thought the brand of paint used would be the same on all Airbus aircraft just the tint used to obtain the colour formula is the only thing that changes

 

Air New Zealand - Airpoints

21 Jan 2016

Total posts 202

To me, an A220/321neo/A32xlr fleet would be my preference, as it is allows operational flexibility for inter-sate, transcon and up to medium haul international and Embraer EJets for regional state routes

The A220 would be for low to medium interstate and short haul international passenger density routes, the A321neo for high interstate, transcon and short haul international passenger density routes and the A321xlr for short to medium haul international routes.

The B787-9 and A350-1000 for medium to ultra long haul international routes.

I wouldn't be surprise that Airbus has already given Qantas very good discounts of future Airbus orders, if Qantas becomes the launch customer for the A350-1000 'extend range' for Project Sunrise.

It interesting the AJ is planning to announce new orders at a similar time to the start of Project Sunrise end of 2021.

03 May 2021

Total posts 30

How about replacing the Fokker 100 I mean srsly how old are those things? There complete garbage

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

24 Jan 2018

Total posts 517

But they have 'character', and they bring back 'memories' of the bi-planes flown by Biggles, Algy, Ginger, et. al. But those fond memories quickly wane about 10 minutes into the flight.  So . . .  I agree, get rid of them !! 

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

11 Oct 2014

Total posts 676

QF has a few options up its sleeve here. 

  • One is  to look at the E2 as an all-new replacement, and see what other regional routes the E2 could be used on. This could arguably be a smaller frame than the A220's, but one which should be cheaper.
  • A second option is to not place a direct replacement order for the F-100's, but instead to cascade existing frames across the network. The F-100 usage is what one could describe as light.  If QF were to go for the A220 series for the Eastern states, they could conceivably consider moving their refurbed B717's back to WA. The light roster would allow for continuous operation and indeed, may even allow for some limited WA route expansion with these frames. 
  • With Delta and Hawaiian due to exit the B717 market within the next few years, there would be plenty of spares to ensure another 10 years of life for the QF B717's. At that stage, QF might be able to put together a new order for replacement of the B717's and the DHC Dash fleet.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

20 Jun 2019

Total posts 8

Perhaps Mr Joyce would like to spend a little bit of his time on fixing the Qantas refund issue. Customers waiting 2. 3, some even 6 months for THEIR money to be returned to them is UNACCEPTABLE.

Jetstar are able to refund within a couple of days in my experience - why not Qantas Mr Joyce???

NOT GOOD ENOUGH QANTAS!!

18 Sep 2015

Total posts 101

At least they (what ever they turn out to be) should arrive sooner than the submarines.

21 Apr 2017

Total posts 14

I think Qantas would at least be wanting to match the seating capacity of Virgins 737 max10. So Qantas would probably need to look at the A321neo. This will also allow for extra growth capacity for the future. That's not to say they don't look at a mix of a320/321. If they go down this path, then airbus might be able to sharpen the pencil on the a220 for their regional requirements? Combined with the a350-1000 & 321xlr, it would give Qantas a very streamlined, versatile, cost efficient fleet moving forward into the future.

06 Feb 2021

Total posts 37

Surely one factor that must come into consideration is that the basic 737 design is 50 years old already, and despite all the upgrades and changes, (which in the case of the Max proved to be somewhat suboptimal,) there are still legacy aspects to the aircraft that are simply outdated technology and design in 2021, how will they appear in another decade and more ?

United Airlines - Mileage Plus

12 Sep 2011

Total posts 227

Yes  a bit like flogging an old horse!  Cousin's son works for Boeing, after Aero Engineering degree from MIT  He's always mum when it comes to a discussion about  Boeing 


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