Qantas Boeing 787s could fly from Dubai to European cities

By Chris Chamberlin, October 6 2015

Qantas could resume flights to cities such as Frankfurt, Rome and Paris with its fleet of Boeing 787-9 aircraft while using Dubai as a Dreamliner springboard between Australia and Europe.

As part of an expanded alliance between Qantas and Emirates, Qantas CEO Alan Joyce met with Emirates President Tim Clark last week to “map the way forward over the next three [to] five years”, Gulf News reports.

While Qantas ceased flying from Sydney to Frankfurt in 2013 and wound up its codeshare partnerships with Cathay Pacific to Rome and with Air France to Paris, Australian Business Traveller understands the current agreement with Emirates allows for the Roo’s return to continental Europe using Boeing 787-9 aircraft.

Qantas flies to London via Dubai using Airbus A380s and Emirates codeshares

Read: Where will Qantas fly its new Dreamliners?

After years of delays and deliberation, Qantas firmed up its order for eight of the long-range Boeing 787-9s with delivery from 2017, in addition to purchase rights and options for 45 more: paving the way for a number of new routes while also strengthening existing ones.

Joyce has also played up Perth as a launching pad for non-stop flights into Europe – with the airline successfully running a one-off, direct Perth-Istanbul service earlier this year – but noted that “a seamless domestic to International transfer was essential for the hub operation.

That will become a reality early in the next decade when Qantas’s domestic operations move to the international side of the airport” reported The West Australian.

Meanwhile, Emirates is bullish on expanding its own flights between Australia and Dubai with Clark sharing that “Sydney, Melbourne and Perth are going to be primary areas,” but that Darwin, Cairns, Broome and even Alice Springs were possibilities for new routes from Dubai.

“Growth in our particular market is unabated – as I said, we will look at everything,” Clark added.

Neither Broome nor Alice Springs are currently home to international flights, although Darwin and Cairns are already connected to Asia with airlines such as Cathay Pacific, Malaysia Airlines, China Eastern and China Southern serving one port or the other.

Also read: Qantas to buy Boeing 787, first flights from 2017

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Chris Chamberlin

Chris Chamberlin is the Associate Editor of Executive Traveller and lives by the motto that a journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step, a great latte, a theatre ticket and a glass of wine!

smit0847

smit0847

30 Aug 2013

Total posts 448

QF 'could' also fly A380s between MEL and SYD each day but it doesnt mean they will either.

 

Its going to be the next century before QF have spare aircraft to start thinking about new routes.

jrfsp

jrfsp

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

04 Mar 2014

Total posts 111

Agreed.

So many hurdles to overcome, the congestion at DXB is becoming a significant problem, with OTP suffering quite badly. So until DWC is open and ATC in the middle east improves - there is limited room for any expansion.

LondonAussie

LondonAussie

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

12 Jul 2014

Total posts 110

Not sure how much ATC can improve. If the ME can be plauded on one thing, it is adopting best practice from the Western world.

Dubai has some of the best Westernised people and technology, I think given the level of traffic is not far remooved from LHR, which has multiple airports, DXB does quite well.

That all said, another airport and/or additional runway will work wonders for them.

LondonAussie

LondonAussie

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

12 Jul 2014

Total posts 110

Correction, LHR doesn't have multiple ports, London does.... Anyway, you get my contention!

Frank

Frank

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

09 Sep 2013

Total posts 176

Indeed, my wife flew into DXB at 0500 this morning on an A380 and it took her an hour to get to the lounge, even with a J class start.

riley

riley

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

19 Mar 2014

Total posts 574

Will this mean catching a 30 minute bus from the tarmac to the terminal, then back again, when transiting through Dubai in a non A380?

Himeno

Himeno

12 Dec 2012

Total posts 922

EK (and QF while the tie up remains in place) will soon have sole access to Concourses A, B and C at DXB. All other airlines are moving to the new Concourse D in coming months.

Frank

Frank

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

09 Sep 2013

Total posts 176

see my post above..

adelguy

adelguy

20 Apr 2015

Total posts 21

Alan Joyce, can we fly to Europe via SIN instead, please?

abudhabi1

abudhabi1

Thai Airways International - Royal Orchid Plus

15 Jan 2013

Total posts 279

I miss those days having done the MEL/SIN/MEL QF9/QF10 back in the days when we had the 744'S ON THEM.It was great with the schedules.

Ho Really

Ho Really

Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer

13 Dec 2014

Total posts 81

Yes, yes and yes! But it won't happen :-(

Himeno

Himeno

12 Dec 2012

Total posts 922

Hasn't QF said a number of times that they want daily flights to Paris?

Under the current agreement with France, Australian carriers could only get daily flights to mainland France if they used A320/737 sized aircraft with less then 200 seats. The assumed seat count for QF 789s would only be able to get 5 flights/week. 747/A380 can only get 3.

TomGoddardd

TomGoddardd

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

15 Dec 2014

Total posts 286

QF should bargain for an agreement with EK that they can go to Europe through Asia/Australia as well

Himeno

Himeno

12 Dec 2012

Total posts 922

QF also has rights to get to Europe via the Americas....

LondonAussie

LondonAussie

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

12 Jul 2014

Total posts 110

Thats a long flight..... Commercilly unviable, as most pax go longer (time wise) flights for being cheap, not longer flights for being longer distance (and hence more fuel more cost).

Arcanum

Arcanum

21 Jul 2012

Total posts 125

Not necessarily.  It depends on the particular routing and what the demand/costs/fares are for it.

For example, Air New Zealand discontinued their AKL-HKG-LHR service but kept the longer AKL-LAX-LHR.  I imagine it had to do with utilization (do something productive with a plane that would otherwise be sitting around all day at LAX) plus less competition/higher fares on the LAX-LHR sector compared to HKG-LHR.

petrhsr

petrhsr

10 Sep 2012

Total posts 151

LAX-LHR-LAX has been outstandingly successful for NZ because J pax have woken-up to the fact that Business Premier is streets ahead of AA's 77W J product, and in another galaxy compared to the hideous and laughably outdated Club World that still plagues BA, even on the 388 fleet.  If you can travel in J between LAX and LHR, why on earth would you fly BA when you can fly NZ? 

aklrunway

aklrunway

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

09 May 2011

Total posts 333

NZ are a far superior airline to AA - I agree!

Himeno

Himeno

12 Dec 2012

Total posts 922

If people will go South East Asia/South West Pacific - North America via Europe/Middle East, they'll go South East Asia/South West Pacific - Europe via North America.

abudhabi1

abudhabi1

Thai Airways International - Royal Orchid Plus

15 Jan 2013

Total posts 279

With all these problems in the Middle East You would be silly not to go via America.Off the topic a little I kind of remember the ads that promoted Panam One Stop out of Sydney or Two Stop out of Mebourne to Europe of the Eighties.

Mightyreds

Mightyreds

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

09 Feb 2015

Total posts 264

Please bring back Singapore!!!

LondonAussie

LondonAussie

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

12 Jul 2014

Total posts 110

If you analyse the ticket pattern QF/EK partnership, this may be the plan in place already.

I can purchase QF tickets to MEL/BNE/SYD via DXB and SIN/KUL on QF codeshares now. So, it would make sence if QF negotiated already the ability to have their own metal doing similar routes and hence the codesharing allows this....

Food for thought?

bsbtraveller

bsbtraveller

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

26 Nov 2012

Total posts 27

They've ordered 8 planes and are replacing 744's. What is the point of this blog?

DOPEFRESHNATION

DOPEFRESHNATION

09 Mar 2015

Total posts 13

the first five of the order is to replace the 747's while the three left can be used for new routes.

AJW

AJW

16 Nov 2011

Total posts 507

Not quite Michael. When the order was annouced Qantas said all 8 are required to replace the 5 747's. The extra 3 are requried to maintain seat capacity.

TheRealBabushka

TheRealBabushka

21 Apr 2012

Total posts 3034

The point of this blog is to show that the QF/EK relationship is still alive and well and not so unbalanced as critics would like to suggest.

somethingy23

somethingy23

Cathay Pacific - The Marco Polo Club

19 Apr 2014

Total posts 46

It's all ifs and buts until Qantas actually receive the planes.

alex_upgrade77

alex_upgrade77

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

08 Sep 2012

Total posts 244

A massive benefit for Emirates in allowing QF to operate their own aircraft ex Dubai to Europe is that it would give them access to cities EK don't currently have access to due to traffic restrictions currrently in place.

For example, Germany has restricted Emirates access to a maximum of four destinations under the bilateral agreement. This is primarily to protect local players like Lufthansa and Air Berlin. Etihad got around it by buying Air Berlin, but Emirates could solve the problem by letting QF fly into ports like Berlin and codesharing on those flights. QF wouldn't be restricted as they'd be flying under the Australia Germany bilateral agreement.

Qantas' expansion could piggyback off Emirates' restricted access - solving the problem and leading to a win-win for both airlines.

 

 

Given that QF, as an Australian registered airline, would 

alex_upgrade77

alex_upgrade77

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

08 Sep 2012

Total posts 244

Ignore the final line starting "Given that....". 

(Note to self...always remember to delete bits you've edited out before you press Post!)

AWA2602

AWA2602

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

29 Jul 2013

Total posts 209

I'd rather see more connections via Asia into Europe, EK has plenty of coverage via DXB. Would love to see QF deploy its B787's on Singapore-Paris or Singapore-Rome. I'd still rather transit through SIN than DXB, the flight lengths better suit my work and sleep patterns when I travel between Australia and Europe.

Arcanum

Arcanum

21 Jul 2012

Total posts 125

Logistically, it makes more sense to have a single scissor hub than random 5th freedom flights from Asia.  I wouldn't hold my breath.

AWA2602

AWA2602

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

29 Jul 2013

Total posts 209

I guess SQ will continue to get more of my business...

alex_upgrade77

alex_upgrade77

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

08 Sep 2012

Total posts 244

I also miss transiting through SIN but I don't see that hub returning in the near / medium future.

SIN isn't a oneworld hub and there isn't enough local traffic out of Singapore to make it viable. Kuala Lumpur might be an option is MH stays in oneworld and they put their code on the QF flights ex KUL. But I doubt that would happen. QF doesn't have the brand strength in Asia to support that.

SIN/BKK largely worked previously because of the Joint Services Agreement with BA which filled both airline's planes to/from LHR. That's gone now so flights for QF beyond Singapore to Europe would unlikely be viable. 

Arcanum

Arcanum

21 Jul 2012

Total posts 125

Agreed.  SIN isn't coming back.

I don't think KUL would work given their shrinking network and subpar on-board product.  The only Asian hub that might be a success would be HKG if QF partnered with CX, but for some reason those two have never played nicely together despite being oneworld partners.

I maintain that QR would have made a better partner via DOH than EK via DXB.  QR is much smaller so QF would have been a true partner rather than the vassal it plays to EK.  With QR buying a stake in BA's parent, there might have been the opportunity to mend fences with BA and keep some of the Asian connections as well.  Best of both worlds!

Himeno

Himeno

12 Dec 2012

Total posts 922

To think a few years ago, just before MH announced they were to join oneworld, QF and MH were possible merger partners and QF was looking to MH as a partner in the then planned "Red Q" premium airline.

We could have seen a QF/MH/BA JV, until QF and MH had a falling out. :/

Kitch

Kitch

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

10 Jun 2015

Total posts 46

What about via Doha, Qatar is a one world partner and recently got a new airport, why not

Nick Sydney 2

Nick Sydney 2

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

22 Jul 2015

Total posts 223

Excellent. So long as the new QF routes fly out from Sydney. 

maabbot

maabbot

06 Feb 2014

Total posts 91

Why...? given it's a hub its the connection that matters in DXB and QF already flies there fron Sydney...787 is perfect for QF to open up Brisbane, Perth or Adelaide via DXB...which are new routes.

Nick Sydney 2

Nick Sydney 2

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

22 Jul 2015

Total posts 223

Sorry ...just geting a little rise out of Melboure and Perth residents! On a serious note why would QF lay on a Perth - Paris service when the demand for this would be far higher from Sydney or Melbourne. All a bit academic until it acutally happens

Chris Chamberlin

Chris Chamberlin

24 Apr 2012

Total posts 2938

"Sorry ...just geting a little rise out of Melboure and Perth residents!"

Please, I think there have been enough off-topic 'Perth'-type comments these past weeks without stirring the pot.

(However, there's nothing off-topic about discussing Qantas' possible B787 routes as you've otherwise done.) :)

Chris_PER

Chris_PER

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

19 Feb 2014

Total posts 451

Interesting that they just cut one flight from Perth yet it's a primary city to expand services...maybe the morning flight to go A380 too....

maabbot

maabbot

06 Feb 2014

Total posts 91

To me the option that makes sense is Berlin...a port that Qantas can fly to, but EK cannot due to all the politics.  Could Qantas base a 787-9 at Dubai to run the connection, or maybe a Perth-DXB-Berlin?

MickO

MickO

Qantas

15 Mar 2013

Total posts 4

Given that Qantas will have newer more economically viable planes it would be good to see them flying from Perth to DBX again rather than worrying about "new" destinations.  I now do my business to London with Singapore Aiirlines as do many of Qantas'  old Perth customers.  Qantas used to be great when they were an Australian airline rather than the east coast airline they are today....sigh

grov

grov

QFF

19 Sep 2013

Total posts 150

All we seem to hear from QF these days is what they could or may do, while other more progressive airlines are telling us what they ARE doing. Says it all really.

TomGoddardd

TomGoddardd

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

15 Dec 2014

Total posts 286

Not much point, EK own those routes


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