Alan Joyce aims to 'redefine’ business, first class on 20 hour flights
By David Flynn, February 21 2019
Qantas CEO Alan Joyce wants to match his ambitious Project Sunrise program for non-stop flights from Sydney and Melbourne to London and New York, with equally bullish plans for the seats and suites which will cradle passengers on those marathon 18-20 hour treks.
“It will be the best product we’ve ever put on an aircraft,” Joyce told Australian Business Traveller at the airline’s financial results presentation this morning, which revealed a pre-tax profit of $780 million across July-December 2018 – a $179m dip from the same period last year, albeit one hampered by a $416m (27%) rise in oil prices.
Joyce confirmed that current thinking will see a first class cabin on the globe-striding jets, although he wouldn’t drawn on the size of that cabin – if it would be a modest four suites or represent a more sizeable slice of the pointy end.
“We’re looking at redefining business class, first class, premium economy and economy, and seeing what else we could do with the space on that aircraft,” Joyce expanded, alluding to recent plans to tap under-utilised space in the cabin – and potentially below decks, in what is nominally the cargo hold – for everything from stretch and exercise zones to cafes and railway-style sleeping bunks.
Photos: here's how Airbus plans to put passengers in the cargo hold
Qantas is eyeballing a layout which would see the Project Sunrise jets carry over 300 passengers across four classes, Qantas International CEO Alison Webster told Australian Business Traveller on the sidelines of the mid-2018 IATA aviation summit in Sydney.
At the time, Webster revealed "we've recently put out the challenge around premium economy and economy seating in the Sunrise aircraft cabin to see what kind of a step change we can create for our customers."
The Project Sunrise jets will also come with superfast WiFi capable of streaming HD video, using the same high-speed satellite technology as Qantas' domestic fleet.
Qantas is due to choose between ultra-long range models of the Airbus A350 and Boeing 777X for the Sunrise fleet by year’s end, with plans to launch the first flights in 2022.
The most optimistic network map shows the Sunrise jets will spear from Sydney, Melbourne and Brisbane to the likes of London, Paris, New York, South Africa and South America.
However, Joyce added that the long-legged aircraft could also appear on shorter more conventional routes to Asia and the USA.
“What we have to have is an aircraft that not only can fly Sydney-London and Sydney-New York, and Melbourne-London and Melbourne-New York, but also can be rotated to do Sydney-Hong Kong and Sydney-LA.”
This is said to be driving Qantas towards a full four-cabin configuration “so that means all of the seats have to be usable for those routes,” Joyce qualified.
Joyce confirmed that seasonal weather conditions on the ultra-long range routes mean “there won’t be a full passenger payload year-round on some of these routes, (but) we have those limitations today on certain routes, like Dallas for parts of the year, where we don’t sell all of the seats on the A380. So it’ll be similar to that.”
Also read: Why airlines need to rethink the passenger experience on ultra-long range flights
David Flynn is the Editor-in-Chief of Executive Traveller and a bit of a travel tragic with a weakness for good coffee, shopping and lychee martinis.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
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Last ULR aircraft B787 all seats nothing else.
380 refresh - no dramatic common area upgrade or new additions, no chill zones/bar.
The track record doesn’t speak volumes for these extra common area ammenities.
If these aircraft will serve Asia as well as ULH, forget about cargo area common areas, they would be used for cargo as the fuel uplift is dramatically less out to 13hrs sectors.
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Qantas
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Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
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W= 8 abreast 19 width x 38 pitch
J= similar staggered layout as current butdifferent seat model to current
F= underwhelming open suite
No bar area
Continued late/cancelled flights due to trying to run flights too close together with no spare capacity to allow for the plane to catch up with the timetable
17 Sep 2015
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Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
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Singapore Airlines, for instance, has short flights from Singapore to Kuala Lumpur, which isn't domestic. At each end are busy airports, SIn and KUL, unlike say ABX which at the outer end of a flight from SYD is not busy.
We need to compare apples with apples, which is hard, but if Qantas was ranked on its on-time performance for its international flights it would be unlikely to be in the top 30.
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Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards
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Agree with all of the sentiments raised by others.
Qantas are very good at maintaining their media coverage momentum.Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer
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Langdonfm, don't confuse a media outlet's reporting of facts with 'endorsement' or anything else for that matter. We put the question about Project Sunrise and first class to Alan at the QF financial briefing to get clarity on the issue of first class for Sunrise, given his previous comments about forecast of reduced passenger loads – Alan affirmed first class for Sunrise, added his take on the Project Sunrise seatscape and also context that the same jets could appear on flights to Hong Kong and Los Angeles. All of that is clearly newsworthy for our target audience. We reported this accordingly and objectively so that you and AusBT's million-plus other readers are clued in to the latest developments on this project.
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QF
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Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
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For First and Business, they could add a bar and more toilets. Premium economy should be upgraded to 42" of pitch with its own bar/Lounge.
For Economy, the seats should have at least 33" of pitch (due to the long flight) and maybe a stretching area/refreshment station.
As it still might be tight on adding these extra facilities, they could do what LH did with their A346s and move the economy toilets and some galley to the cargo area as especially with the ultra long haul flights they are unlikely to be using the full cargo area.
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Jetstar Airways - Qantas Frequent Flyer
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Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer
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Am I being over cynical or is that what will happen?
Hopefully the first class seats are a significant improvement over what's on the A380 and a big step up from whatever the business class seats are on the Sunrise jets, but I'm not holding my breath.
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Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer
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I note that first class is apparently "current thinking" - that's the beginning of managing expectations!!!!
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Also, I don’t think I’ve ever seen a product ‘redefine’ a category and be better than the old - it’s nornally a term used to adjust expectations for an upcoming downgrade.
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Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
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Just get someone to answer the phone promptly
05 May 2016
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If you have Platinum or above status the phone should be answered promptly. Any less than that and there's likely to be significant wait times.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
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And "Yes', please pay people to answer the phone.
Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
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Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer - Chairmans Lounge
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At leas they got rid of that pathetic cafe breakfast.
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QFF
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I also have two young kids - I'd be insane to put the family on a flight of that length for a leisure trip. Pretty sure all four of us would cry at least once.
I think these super long haul flights eliminate the family market? I dunno, but I just wouldn't do it.
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Singapore Airlines - KrisFlyer
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Look, to be fair, but 'redefine' he's referring to Qantas, not the industry. So, we'll probably get a product that is currently in use at SQ, EK, et al, by which time those airlines would have done something better.
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Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
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Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer
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He’s taking the entire Aussie market for a ride
Qantas
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KLM - Flying Blue
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Passengers under the onboard conditions of low cabin pressure and low cabin humidity, for a 20-hour journey, are prone to dehydration, jet-lag, and hypoxia
All aircraft toilets have to be big enough for any passenger use, comfortable, well lit and perfectly ventilated and clean
Onboard any flight there are pregnant women, elderly people, handicapped passengers, children and so on
Reduced seat pitch increases flight stress, muscle pain, and some other unwanted situations
Qantas
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No Alan?
Economy on a 20 hour flight should illegal.
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American Airlines - AAdvantage
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after takeoff #drinkingculture
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Alan Joyce can redefine the expensive ticket priced areas of a plane, but the new economy in the 787 was meant to be "revolutionary". Instead, it went for a 3 x 3 x 3 seating across the cabin. Definitely not revolutionary.
Mr Joyce and members of the management team, which of you has ever travelled in the economy section of the 787? Try it, incognito, in 52E, middle seat, middle division. It'll be a great learning experience. You'll discover a new class of travel - sardine class.
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