How Qantas' non-stop Perth-London Boeing 787 flights will work

By David Flynn, February 8 2017
How Qantas' non-stop Perth-London Boeing 787 flights will work

Qantas will begin selling tickets for direct flights between Perth and London by April, ahead of a March 2018 kickoff for the non-stop service.

And there's no exaggeration in saying this marks a new era for Qantas, not just for the new Boeing 787 aircraft involved – an aircraft which will eventually take over most of Qantas' international and domestic east-west routes – but for a future network built around ultra long-range direct flights.

Qantas plans more of these to come, not just from Perth to other popular European cities but – with the right aircraft from Airbus or Boeing – Sydney to New York, Melbourne to London and Perth to Los Angeles.

But for now all eyes are on Perth, which will anchor this shortest and fastest version of the Kangaroo Route in its 70 year history and turn the WA capital into a new home-gown international hub for Qantas.

It's a seismic shift for Qantas, so here's how the airline will run its Perth-London flights.

1. Perth-London flights will start from Melbourne

The actual route for the Boeing 787 will be Melbourne-Perth-London, with the Dreamliner taking flight from Melbourne Airport's international terminal.

Passengers will go through customs and security at Melbourne before the Dreamliner makes a cross-country leg to Perth.

For Platinum-grade frequent flyers, this will include access to the Qantas first class lounge (below) with its seasonal a la carte menu and spa treatments.

As the Boeing 787 itself tops out at business class, most other passengers will be ushered into Melbourne's Qantas international business lounge - which, sad to say, is arguably the worst international lounge in Qantas' Aussie network.

At this point, savvy Platinum card-holders will be hoping that Qantas will sell the Melbourne-Perth leg as a domestic flight, in the same way as some Jetstar flights are offered today.

Read: Get into the Qantas First Class Lounge on domestic Jetstar flights

This would let them clock up some pre-flight time with fine food, wine and perhaps a spa treatment at Melbourne's Qantas First lounge before doing an otherwise bog-standard transcontinental run to Perth.

However, it's tipped that Qantas may prevent the Melbourne-Perth leg from showing on domestic airline schedules so can't be booked as a purely domestic flight.

It's also been suggested that Qantas could drop its daily Melbourne-London flight from early 2018 in favour of the Boeing 787 service, with partner Emirates moving to fill in the gap in Qantas’ network by rostering one of its own aircraft onto the Melbourne-Dubai leg as a codeshare with Qantas.

Read: Qantas to axe its Melbourne-London Airbus A380 flights?

2. A new international lounge for Perth

Those London-bound flyers from Melbourne will arrive at a new international zone at Perth Airport's Terminal 3.

This is currently a domestic terminal and part of the T3/T4 'Qantas precinct' but is being converted to allow international operations thanks to a $14 million investment by the WA state government.

Eligible travellers will head straight to an all-new Perth International Lounge which will be similar in concept and design to the airline's existing international lounges at SingaporeHong Kong and Brisbane, below (and a substantial upgrade to the current Qantas International Lounge at Perth's T1).

Read: Qantas confirms new Perth international lounge for Boeing 787 flights

Not eligible for lounge access? Let's hope the terminal's international zone includes at least a cafe.

(It should, given that Qantas will also shift its Singapore and Auckland flights to T3).

3. For those connecting from Sydney, Brisbane or Adelaide...

Travellers on Qantas' other east-west flights will arrive into the domestic T4 terminal and walk across to T3's international zone.

This could make more sense for passengers from Brisbane and Adelaide who today have to fly to Sydney to join QF1 (or to Melbourne for QF9) – they're already making one stop before they even set foot onto the flight to London via Dubai, so the Perth-London service will be mean one less connection, and a far easier one than at Sydney.

Sydney-siders may likely stick with the daily Airbus A380 flight to Dubai and London, especially as unlike the Boeing 787 it offers first class – unless they're driven to transit at Perth rather than Dubai, prefer to fly on the Dreamliner over the superjumbo, or want that non-stop Australia-London experience.

Additionally, some pundits predict the Perth-London flights will cost more than those which run via Dubai.

How much time do travellers stand to save on these direct flights?

Qantas estimates around 17 hours from Perth to London, to which you can add four hours if you're coming from Melbourne and around five hours from Sydney or Brisbane.

By comparison, the Sydney-London QF1 flight takes an average 14 hours from Sydney to Dubai and a further 7½ hours from Dubai to London for a total flying time of 21½ hours

4. London, here we come!

Qantas hasn't revealed the timings of its Perth-London flight but if the Boeing 787 was wheels-up from Perth in the evening it could arrive into London from 6am onwards.

The alternative would be leaving Perth mid-morning to reach London at around 7pm, although passengers from the east coast would face a very early start.

Either way, Qantas CEO Alan Joyce has said the airline will revise its east-west timetables with an eye to better connections so that some specific flights would neatly feed into the Boeing 787 schedule.

5. The return journey

Passengers will relax pre-flight at Qantas' new London lounge (below) at Heathrow Terminal 3 before boarding the Dreamliner for the long trek back to Australia.

A return flight leaving London mid-morning would reach Perth close to noon, allowing passengers from eastern states to continue on a connecting flight from Qantas' T4 domestic terminal and arrive home in the evening.

Readers are reminded of our comment policy and asked to keep comments on topic and to add value to the conversation. Comments not meeting those criteria may be removed without notice.

David

David Flynn is the Editor-in-Chief of Executive Traveller and a bit of a travel tragic with a weakness for good coffee, shopping and lychee martinis.

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1141

I hope Canberra is in the mix. The bus in Sydney is a pain, and the security queues in Melbourne a little long. It may mean moving the current Canberra Perth flight a little earlier.

Mal
Mal

14 Jun 2013

Total posts 360

From what Alan Joyce has said, I'd think there will be a flight from each major city to Perth timed for the Boeing 787. Canberra-Perth would only need to move back a bit earlier. The current one is probably timed more for WA-based federal politicians who need to fly CBR-PER.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

08 Sep 2012

Total posts 244

Interesting article.


If Qantas don't open up the MEL-PER leg to domestic traffic, that's going to be one pretty empty (and unprofitable) flight on that first leg. 

And they can't expect to fill the flight from Melbourne because presumably the PER-LHR leg will include passengers connecting in from ADL and BNE and elsewhere as well as those originating in PER. 

Surely they'll open it up to domestic and charge a premium?

13 Sep 2016

Total posts 15

If Qantas cancels the Melbourne-Dubai-London A380 (which it's expected will happen) and hands the QF9/10 flight numbers across to Melbourne-Perth-London, then a lot of the current QF9 travellers would probably shift to the Boeing 787 direct service. Given the Boeing 787 has half as many economy seats as an A380 (166 vs 371) then allowing domestic flyers to do the Melbourne-Perth leg would effectively block those seats from being sold to passengers flying all the way to London. Those passengers would be paying a lot more to Qantas so why wouldn't Qantas want to prioritise them over domestic flyers whose sole reason to book the 787 is to eat and drink their weight at the Melbourne first class lounge?

Mal
Mal

14 Jun 2013

Total posts 360

I agree, there's no good reason why Qantas should allow the MEL-PER leg to be sold on its own. Plus how are they going to handle premium economy, as there is no domestic fare for this. It makes more sense to block it from the domestic schedule.

07 Oct 2012

Total posts 1259

I agree with the point, but apart from customers flying MEL-PER-LHR there will also be passengers starting their journeys in PER or commencing in ADL, BNE or CBR (plus more) and then connecting through PER.


So Qantas would be flying some empty seats from MEL-PER if they don't sell the the 787 as a domestic flights. QF will have some process or yield management to predict and deal with this,

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1141

Mal remember there maybe some Melb Perth folk who originated in LA

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

27 Feb 2015

Total posts 34

It would be good if they cancelled the 9/10 altogether because that opens up 2 A380s at a time for the mid-life refresh, therefore speeding up the process and all the rest of it. 

08 Feb 2017

Total posts 7

Qantas/Jetstar used to sell domestic segments of international flights departing from international terminals as domestic flights so this isn't anything that hasn't been done before.

All that happens is at check-in (which needs to follow the international check-in cut-off instead of the domestic one), your boarding pass will be stuck with a large "D" sticker to denote it is a domestic flight. At immigration, you'll be processed through a separate line for domestic travelers.

Given the 4 hour flying time there's opportunity to offer Premium Economy (quite a few of the Asian carriers do on short haul flights of the same length). Alternatively they could block off a section of the seats for QFF Platinum/Gold card members...


Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1141

Alex you may have forgotten the LA Perth passengers which this flight may be marketed and timetabled for. That may keep th flight full-ish on all sectors without the need for domestic passengers.

02 Jun 2013

Total posts 49

If you blocked seats on MEL-PER to LHR bound passengers only, you will be flying a lot of empty seats on that leg, given all the pax joining at PER off other flights or people originating in PER. Thus I can almost guarantee the domestic only flight option will be offered for sale - it will just need to be managed carefully to ensure sufficient capacity is available to passengers looking to book all the way from MEL-LHR

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

26 May 2014

Total posts 450

Agreed, as for the PE seats, they can either create a domestic PE fare or offer them as extra legroom seats to Y passengers at a fee like they do now.  Could be a good way to test the market for PE on PER domestic services.

31 Mar 2014

Total posts 345

With 7 flights a day Melbourne to Perth, if they got the calculations wrong, the domestic passengers can get bumped easy enough. I would be very surprised if Qantas flew the plane half empty. They pay people good money to ensure any seat that can get sold, does get sold.

Mal
Mal

14 Jun 2013

Total posts 360

And how exactly do you propose Qantas should 'carefully manage' selling of economy seats on a Melbourne-Perth domestic leg to make sure there's still seats enough for passengers flying all the way from Melbourne to London?

07 Oct 2012

Total posts 1259

Exactly how they managed current supply v demand... using fare buckets. All is not lost, if they sell out of seats on the direct 787 between MEL-PER, they may offer passengers MEL-PER flights on regular domestic services and then connect at PER on the 787. No different to when they operated SYD-ADL-SIN, SYD-BNE-MNL, DFW-BNE-SYD... or more broadly, how they operate the current QF9 (they manage the yield for pax doing MEL-DXB, DXB-LHR and MEL-LHR).


QF won't be flying empty seats across to Perth (by choice).

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1141

Not if there were LA originating folk on it.

05 May 2016

Total posts 593

It will be interesting to see what the Status Credit earn is like compared with the current route via Dubai. If the route via PER is more expensive I'd hope it earns more SCs.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

28 Oct 2011

Total posts 403

Status credits are directly related to distance, so there should be no change to that. 

AJW
AJW

16 Nov 2011

Total posts 581

Just had  a quick look and if you can break the sectors into different flights the routing via Perth will give less status credits.

MEL-PER-LHR is 1681 and 9009 miles per sector and MEL-DXB-LHR is 7231 and 3421 miles per sector.

So via PER on different flight numbers would give 275 points in flexible business and via DXB 295 in the same class. 
 
Mal
Mal

14 Jun 2013

Total posts 360

Qantas could easily offer double status credits on this flight as a special incentive to book it once the initial novelty wears off. That would fill the seats plenty fast!

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1141

It may well be that the current QF9 will terminate in Dubai rather than being fully axed for the moment as then some LHR bound passengers can join QF2, as well as other European flights.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

15 Mar 2016

Total posts 169

I find it hard to believe they won't keep some form of A380 service ex-Mel for EU bound passengers. The JV agreement has leeway for different options. 

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1141

I suspect all A380s will be out of Sydney and all 789s out of Melbourne for the first 8 and maybe 12

11 Dec 2015

Total posts 88

Alternatively, is this an opportunity for QF to fly another Dreamliner from MEL to Dubai and then on to another destination in Europe, with passengers on both flights "swapping over" in Dubai?

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

23 Oct 2013

Total posts 714

Does anyone know if this flight will be covered under the existing emirates codeshare agreement?



Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

15 Mar 2016

Total posts 169

Do you mean will it have an EK flight number as well? I'd be surprised but I guess it's possible.

05 May 2016

Total posts 593

I guess it depends what QANTAS' deal with Emirates was and whether the flights bypassing DXB required any renegotiation.

So this news can really be spun in the following ways:

  1. QF is downgrading MEL/LHR from A380 to 787 effective Apr 2018
  2. QF daily MEL/LHR will be retimed to allow for better connection with other QF domestic services at PER
  3. QF ditching DXB for PER for its daily MEL/LHR service, Or
  • In response to community concerns QF will deliver a LHR service that avoids a DXB stopover, Or
  • SIN looses out again with the change of stopover points from DXB to PER on its MEL/LHR service.

12 Apr 2011

Total posts 74

Or: QF is reducing capacity to London.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

09 May 2011

Total posts 356

Huge assumption! They haven't said anything about dropping DXB/LHR ex MEL

12 Apr 2011

Total posts 74

No they haven't but additional slots at LHR are difficult and expensive to come by.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

14 Oct 2016

Total posts 61

Anyone think that there is a possibility that Qantas could be eying off adding a flight to Gatwick and using the EK facilities there?

This would free up the slot at LHR for the 787 and potentially make Qantas a more enticing proposition for those PAX who loath dealing with Heathrow. It would also give a bit more choice for those who currently use BA flights to connect through London.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

15 Mar 2016

Total posts 169

I'm not sure about LGW but given QF1/2/9/10 tend to operate at or near capacity, i'd be staggered if the dreamliner PER route was a direct swap. They would lose too much business. I'd wager, with no basis for this whatsoever, that another ex-MEL A380 route will be opened up via DXB or perhaps SIN if the EK JV allows and on to another EU hub. I doubt it'd be FRA, they dropped that due to lack of demand but perhaps CDG.

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1141

QF9 isn't at premium capacity tonight given my upgrade to business from a discount economy fare. That is a first for me. I am not so sure QF9/10 is a raging success. Look to the second four 787s to see how European capacity is augmented. I think the second four will be based in Melbourne as well, but where they go outside of Dallas is anyone's guess. Could be Melb Perth Paris. 

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

15 Mar 2016

Total posts 169

There is also a problem with QF9 this week that has altered loads. I'm yet to be on it and have spare seats in J or F and I don't tend to travel at peak times. Most people I know report similar experiences.

AJW
AJW

16 Nov 2011

Total posts 581

They do own 2 more pairs of slots, but have leased to other airlines, BA I think.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

23 Oct 2013

Total posts 714

Correct Qantas has 8 slots at London Heathrow. 4 of which are currently used for the 2 A380 flights. Another 4 are currently leased to BA.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

18 Feb 2015

Total posts 113

Who knows maybe a BA code share is coming 

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

23 Oct 2013

Total posts 714

It is possible as some Qantas flights do have BA flight nubmers.


Flights to a particular destination like flights to the US carry an AA code, South America a LA code and Dubai a EK code so I think a BA code to London may be possible.

Domestic flights mainly have EK codeshares with some flights also wearing an JQ, AA, LA, PX and BA code

Transtasman flights all have EK codes and most several also have AA, BA, JL, LA.

But when you look at ones like SYD-SIN that go up against BA flights, the BA code is missing on the list of 9W, MU, AY, UL, PG.

QFF

12 Apr 2013

Total posts 1446

"Who knows maybe a BA code share is coming"
LOL - some down-voters on war path!
But I am with you and I personally most welcoming QF-BA codeshare.

17 Sep 2015

Total posts 391

19 months on, you and TheRealBabushka have long been proven correct.

Assuming QF retains its landing slot at LHR at 1240h and the PER/LHR takes 18h:

  • PER/MEL - Dep: 2335h, Arr 0040h

2h turnaround at PER

  • PER/LHR - Dep 0240h, Arr 1240h

All at local times.

This timing allows for connection with

  • QF767 (BNE/PER) Arr 2345h
  • QF583 (SYD/PER) Arr 2150h
  • QF719 (CBR/PER) Arr 2045h

With ADL, DRW existing flights offer poor connections, so they'll probably get routed by SYD on the flagship LHR service (or in the case of DRW, bite the bullet and acknowledge the loss of market to SQ).

Upshot: Assuming the above, the QF MEL First lounge would still remain open in the evening for the evening MH,CX, QR departures. *phew* *fingers crossed*

31 Mar 2014

Total posts 345

That a lot of assumptions. It has already been said that domestic flights would be re timed to connect better.

I also think 2:40AM departure time is pretty rude for what is ultimately, a flagship route.

EK doesn't seem to mind, departing MEL in the past at 3am-ish.

But I take your point.

Question is, is there a slot at LHR around 3h earlier at 9am, allowing for a PER dep at 2300h and MEL dep at 2000h?

If they can't get a 9am-ish slot, then we're looking at a LHR 1900h arrival since any earlier would mean a twilight MEL departure.

Personally I'd prefer a twilight MEL departure!

CX,MH pax won't be kicked out as they are currently when QF9 completes boarding!

AJW
AJW

16 Nov 2011

Total posts 581

Think you are close to the money. However it is clear London slots will need to be changed. Current slots are QF1 arrive 6:05, QF10 depart 11:55, QF9 arrive 12:40, QF2 depart 20:45. Cannot do that with QF1/2 at A380 and Perth as 787, assuming QF9/10 is canned or terminates in DXB the above slots need to change anyway.


So what you would want is the 787 coming in a bit earlier to then be able to turn around and operate the 11:55 flight out.

So how about leave Perth circa midnight, for a ~10am arrival in London. Better time to be leaving Perth plus east coast connections are sorted (with BNE flight timed earlier) and away you go.

On the return for a 11:55 departure, guess that means arriving in Perth early afternoon so again good time and connections to the east.

Anyway all academic anyway isn't it? None of us have control over slots and none of us know if QF9/10 will be canned or terminated in DXB. My money is on terminated in DXB though....

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1141

I am sure they have traded a slot with someone (probably BA) just to do that. They may even put a BA flight number on the flight as well to sweeten the deal.

AJW
AJW

16 Nov 2011

Total posts 581

They do own two other pairs of slots too, so 3rd option, but one I doubt is they have got them back. If I recall one pair of slots were in the morning and the other in the evening.


Why operate a flight to DXB, when you can codeshare on EK metal anyway? Timing of current QF9 is also bad for connections to EK services ex DXB.

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1141

I am on that flight tonight for  exactly that very nice connections. It depends on where you are going. I must say as I got an upgrade to business from a discount economy ticket; Obviously not a flight full of premium passengers.

AJW
AJW

16 Nov 2011

Total posts 581

Same could be said for any flight couldn't it? Just codeshare to someone else. Virtual airline and all done.


Also if QF9 turns around in DXB instead of going onto LHR, then would be no issue retiming it. In fact before it used to arrive into  DXB around the same time as QF1. And there is one good reason to continue the flight.

19 Jun 2014

Total posts 32

Is this Melbourne to London via Perth service going to be similar travel time to other Melbourne to London services?

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

21 Aug 2014

Total posts 513

Yes I believe around 90 minutes less than the current QF9 but I might be wrong.

Mal
Mal

14 Jun 2013

Total posts 360

QF9 you can average at 14 hours Melbourne-Dubai and 8 hours Dubai-London, plus about 2 hours in the lounge at Dubai = 24 hours.

For the Boeing 787  service you'd be looking at 4 hours from Melbourne to Perth, add 2 hours in the Perth lounge in transit, then 17 hours for Perth-London = 23 hours.

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1141

Dimmer AJ reckons it is an hour faster due to faster 787 turnaround time at Perth and fewer traffic related delays than Dubai.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

08 Feb 2017

Total posts 1

Given there can be a rather significant variation in flight time from Sydney (and other East Coast) ports I can't see why you would opt for the flight via Perth. Risky if you have a tight connection. 

Qantas - Qantas Frequent FlyerJ

19 Apr 2013

Total posts 13

Hope Qantas consider that not all passengers start their return journey from London and allow for domestic connections into London on the same day before boarding the return flight to Perth.

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1141

There is a 10pm QF2 for those connecting passengers who can't make a late morning flight.

Qantas - Qantas Frequent FlyerJ

19 Apr 2013

Total posts 13

But that won't get me back to Perth non stop?

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

29 Nov 2013

Total posts 481

Isn't that why the code-share agreement with Emirates is so valuable? Pax who don't want to or need to exit via Heathrow can pick up a code-share EK flight to Dubai and then multiple flight options back to Oz...

Qantas - Qantas Frequent FlyerJ

19 Apr 2013

Total posts 13

Much prefer Qantas metal London to Perth....

AJW
AJW

16 Nov 2011

Total posts 581

I would prefer Qantas was able to fly me to any destination in the world I so wished. 


But reality is it doesn't work like that. There are times you need to fly via somewhere else, overnight or fly other airlines.

No airline can be everything to everyone for every journey. 

Qantas - Qantas Frequent FlyerJ

19 Apr 2013

Total posts 13

Agreed to a point, however those like me who are from Perth in the recent past have had to look elsewhere for airlines to get us to London. I'm looking forward to Qantas better serving its Perth based customers

AJW
AJW

16 Nov 2011

Total posts 581

Well you will be able to get to London. But your comment was for connections OUTSIDE of London.

QFF

12 Apr 2013

Total posts 1446

"Isn't that why the code-share agreement with Emirates is so valuable? Pax who don't want to or need to exit via Heathrow can pick up a code-share EK flight to Dubai and then multiple flight options back to Oz..."
Mate, I already learn that you EK fan. Why then not to book EK directly - they have plenty of options. As for me I may resume flight to Europe via Perth by QF (of course if price will be right or classic awards available) - since QF partnered themselves with Emirates I've never flown with them to Europe (use alternative carriers with transit in Asia) and I fly on average once per year for last 6 years.

23 Feb 2015

Total posts 271

I would anticipate domestic bookings on the Mel-Per leg but would equally anticipate people with those domestic bookings being thrown on to domestic only flights if sufficient people book through to LHR. 

11 Dec 2016

Total posts 37

A couple of  questions here:


a) Any word for us Economy class passengers on seating or new amenities on the 787? 17 hrs is uncharted territory. What will be the width and pitch of the seats? How strict will enforcement of seat "boundaries" be? (Imagine you are stuck next to an obese or very broad individual breaching into your seat for 17 hours with no alternative seat) We are talking about a real chance of significant mental or physical health episodes on this flight. I get it, Business Class will be revolutionary, but Economy is still the majority of pax. What are the chances we get an exercise bike somewhere? 

b) Is London such a significant destination? Personally, I'll have no reason to go to London for business, and it's the least interesting part of Europe for tourism purposes - I'd rather stop in DXB or Singapore and go straight to southern Europe from there. As far as business ties, aside from banking, UK is of declining importance to Australia. However, if Perth can be turned into a bona fide hub into rest of Europe, that's more exciting, but still not sure if the stopover in DXB or SIN are so bad as it is to justify using Perth. Who knows if that'll be viable -- Perth's geographic positioning is not ideal enough for this. Broome would be better, but obviously has no local population to support. 




QFF

12 Apr 2013

Total posts 1446

By all means it is good news. And I really hope that it will put huge dent in QF-EK marriage and hopefully will lead to divorce that in my books will be even greater news.

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

06 Sep 2012

Total posts 217

QF-EK relationship is probably one of the major factors that allowed QF to keep operating to Europe. The capabilities and economics of the B787 can only do so much (possibly fly to the major cities but nowhere close to the thirty odd cities that EK serves in Europe) but if the relationship breaks down (which I doubt it will) QF has more to lose. 

QFF

12 Apr 2013

Total posts 1446

QF does not "operate" in continental Europe - EK does. That relationship is sole reason for this - somehow QF stop flying to Frankfurt very soon after going to bed with EK. You may call it coincidence, but I do not think so.

AJW
AJW

16 Nov 2011

Total posts 581

And except for Frankfrut, Qantas didn't operate to Continental Europe either, at the time of the agreement coming into being.


Likewise except for BA no European airline operates to Aus either, maybe for a very very good reason!

And the EK arrangement gave two things. One moving QF's hub from SIN to DXB and giving mutliple options to transfer to Europe (and Africa) in DXB rather than LHR.

And frankly changing in LHR to BA was a nightmare pre EK alliance, with terminal changes for most flights, their crappy Club Europe offering, and more recently with further changes and an even crapper Club Europe offering, and don't even think about Euro traveller and the changes there. Care for a M&S sarnie? That will be four pounds fifty please? Oh cash, we are cashless only, so credit card please. Oh Australian card, more charges, not our responsibility, if it works!!!

Even with EK 9 abreast Y on a 777, I will eat my hat if anyone seriously thinks changing in London to BA is better than changing in DXB to EK.

Though all rather academic, as the 787 flight would on the surface appear to be a hub busting point to point flight, which is the main raison d'etre for the 787's range.

QFF

12 Apr 2013

Total posts 1446

I said this numerous times and can repeat again and again - if you happen to like DXB as your transit to Europe and EK as your carrier then please by all means fly EK and be happy! Just not say that it is QF has one-hop to Europe (it indeed EK does) and not try to convince me that DXB better than SIN, HKG or BKK because I happen to have different opinion. I did not use QF to fly Europe and found numerous ways to do so via Asia.
So indeed I really hope for QF plans to use our forgotten by QF 4-th city in the country as starting point to fly Europe. I hope that it will be cheaper for them to do so, I hope that eventually they open other routes and I hope that eventually they stop fly via DXB. And I will happily use QF to fly Perth-Europe, providing they pricing it right.

AJW
AJW

16 Nov 2011

Total posts 581

PS Yes it is more than a coincidence QF stopped fling to Frankfurt around the time of the EK tie up. However the EK tie ip was part of a wider plan to restructure QFi from loss making to profit making, which it seems they have done. Yes the EK tie was part of that, but frankly for the most part dropping Frankfurt was sensible.


Though now with 787's coming online, some of these routes could well be served again as point to point services.

QFF

12 Apr 2013

Total posts 1446

I honestly believe that QF master prohibit them fly to Europe via anything but DXB and flying to Frankfurt via DXB indeed make little sense. Or may be QF was banned to fly anywhere except of LHR and no more than 2 flights per day, who knows?
Though I also hope that after probe Perth-Europe route QF will start to fly other European cities - it indeed does make sense to fly more smaller aircraft into many destinations instead of few bigger ones in one destination only.

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1141

I suspect with the second group of four 789s a routing wil be DFW- Melb-Perth-Paris return. Paris has a limit on weekly seats QF can offer but with the low capacity 789s this means a very viable 6 flights per week.

12 Dec 2012

Total posts 1001

The Mainland France limit in the AU-FR Air Service Agreement isn't quite based on seats. It's based on "units". 3 per week. A "unit" is defined as a range of seats on a given aircraft, starting at under 150 seats for 0.25 units up to 1.0 units for over 400 seats.
The 236 seat plan for the QF 789s fall into the 200-239 range at 0.5 units (240-279 is 0.6).
With that config, they are allowed 6 flights/week to Paris. If they had just 4 more seats, they'd only be allowed 5 (and only 3 with the 747s/A380s).

As far as Germany goes, QF would be allowed upto 25 flights/week. EK is allowed to fly to 4 ports in Germany. They can't open a new port without cutting another. The hope would be for QF to start a AU-DXB-Germany flight to a port that EK doesn't fly to.

At any rate, using the first 8 787s to open new routes doesn't help them retire the 5 747s they keep saying is the plan. The thus far announced LAX-MEL-PER-LHR doesn't displace any 747s. At most, it might displace 2 A380s, if they stop the MEL-DXB-LHR.

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1141

Himeno,

I think the LAX Melb will displace at least one 747. I think they said they will get rid of two and leave the others for the moment. Dropping Mel-Dubai-London will free up 2 A380s which in tern will free up the 747s to Hong Kong and possibly Singapore or Tokyo, which can then be got rid of. So in this sense the opening up of new routes will enable the 747s to go, by replacing them with 789s or A380s depending on the load requirements. I think it is clear the A380s will all go to Sydney routes and the 789s to Melbourne (for the first 8 at least), and both types will do their A and B checks in LA. Thanks for clarifying the seat number issues for Paris: now we kneow the precise number chosen for the 789 (3 less than the upper limit for 6 days a week). AJ has said they should be in Paris and this is the way to do it.

12 Dec 2012

Total posts 1001

The 2/3 weekly MEL-LAX 747 QF95/96 has been discontinued (as of last week I believe) and the 747 used for MEL-HKG. There is no 2nd MEL-LAX flight until the 787 comes.
HND is very limited in when A380s can go there (much like MNL only being able to have 1 A380 on the ground at a time). It is unlikely that QF25/26 will change from a 747 to 380 and the 787 is too small given the HND flight is often quite full.
After the through flights to EU were dropped from SIN, they no longer needed the extra seats into SIN. A330s are big enough for SIN.

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1141

Himeno,


I agree with you about HND they would need two A332s and find a slot for the extra one, which would not be easy (they may leave the 744 there for a few more years yet). They could move the two 332s Sydney to singapore to one A380 per day, and put some more capacity ex Melb (2 A332s maybe, and that way get rid of a 744). I think the HK will certainly go to the A380.

12 Dec 2012

Total posts 1001

No more flights to/from AU can go to HND unless MLIT assigns more slots for the Australia route. It isn't just a matter of 2 A330s and "find another slot". ("Find another slot" is the issue at HKG)
QF can send as many flights as it wants to any airport in Japan equipped with immigration and customs inspection, except HND.

I could see them putting 787s on SFO and YVR, maybe making YVR regular up from the current seasonal.

AJW
AJW

16 Nov 2011

Total posts 581

Plus more scope with a few more A330-200's doing more international flying and less domestic. Assuming of course that capacity isn't used on new/expanded services.

Emirates Airlines - Skywards

11 Mar 2015

Total posts 191

this flight is only useful for those whose final destination is London,those with connecting flights to other Europian destination is just another hassle to transfer the notorious Heathrow nightmare-and 17 hours -imagine you are stuck in a middle seat between 2 fatso-yeah that would be fun....

AJW
AJW

16 Nov 2011

Total posts 581

So stick with other carriers if London isn't your destination. Mentioned it above, point to point hub busting is the whole idea behind the flight and the 787's range in general.

Philippine Airlines - Mabuhay Miles

04 Aug 2015

Total posts 2

I can see price war between PER-LHR with Middle eastern and SEA carriers! 

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

06 Sep 2012

Total posts 217

Price war = win-win for customers

10 Aug 2015

Total posts 118

There is intense price competition on right now. Fares Syd - London rtn for $1400 with Qatar.

The less QF is involved with EK the better, specifically if they want to have any credibility with their "powerful engagement on equality" for gay and lesbian passengers.

16 Feb 2017

Total posts 19

What an awful backwards step this will be for Qantas's Melbourne customers. Currently - a nice 10 abreast A380 service. In future - the horrific option of 9 abreast on a 787. Who in there right mind would choose that - particularly when EK, EY, QR, SG and MH all offer A380 services to London. 

Qantas

13 Jun 2015

Total posts 143

The thing about MEL-PER-LHR is the pax capacity for the flight. Given that PER-LHR is 14499 km long, they can't fit 236 people on the flight. They need to reduce it to a lighter load to enable more fuel for the flight. 

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 1141

Shoddy,

They have already reduced the passenger load to that low number for exactly that reason so they can do the flight with that load.


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