Virgin Australia to upgrade domestic inflight meals, drinks

By David Flynn, July 28 2017

EXCLUSIVE | Virgin Australia is revamping the meal and drink service across its domestic flights as the airline attempts to gain altitude against a resurgent Qantas.

Australian Business Traveller understands that several changes are being considered for both the business class and economy cabins, with the relaunch expected to take place before the end of August.

A Virgin Australia spokesperson confirmed to Australian Business Traveller that the airline "is reviewing its catering offering across the network, and we look forward to sharing more detail soon."

Sparkling wine for domestic business class passengers is said to be on the menu. Virgin currently serves Champagne in business class only on its international flights to the Los Angeles and Hong Kong.

However, exactly what would be offered on domestic routes depends on who will make the final call: airline CEO John Borghetti is a true Champagne man, but we'd wager that the airline's financial controllers would prefer an Australian sparkling.

Economy travellers can expect more substantial 'complimentary snacks' – which these days tend to be along the lines of a small muesli bar, a tea cake or muffin, a finger sandwich or cheese and crackers on all domestic routes bar east-west flights, where a hot meal is served.

Virgin is also mulling the introduction of pre-purchased meals for economy as an alternative or potentially a replacement to the current 'buy on board' system.

The airline has previously floated this idea during a series of closed-door focus groups held with its Velocity Frequent Flyer members in December 2016 – the same focus groups which canvassed the creation of an 'economy plus' package based on extra legroom rows, which later morphed into Virgin's Economy X which launched in March of this year.

One of the airline's suggestions during those workshops was that economy class passengers might buy their meals and snacks from trolleys or kiosks at the departure gate.

This could minimise wastage as well as operational costs compared to meals loaded onto the flight and sold (or not) en route.

If you currently travel on Virgin Australia domestic flights, what's your take on the proposed changes - and what other changes would you like to see made to the airline's inflight catering?

David

David Flynn is the Editor-in-Chief of Executive Traveller and a bit of a travel tragic with a weakness for good coffee, shopping and lychee martinis.

UpUpAndAway

UpUpAndAway

QF

11 Jul 2014

Total posts 293

Everyone complains about the meals on Virgin,  a couple of months ago I heard their catering company was after a new boss. New boss new ideas. 

traveller90

traveller90

29 Jan 2012

Total posts 108

Agreed - New caterer and new ideas! A Customer choice menu could be an option. Pay per item but have a stock of quality offerings in both drinks and food from which to choose, and not the cheap snacks offer by Jetstar and Co. Passengers are happy to purchase from a menu as long as the items listed are quality. Include domestic bubbly, and quality beers, have quality hot and cold items similar to Lite and Easy. No waste, just heat and serve. Continue of course with the complimentary tea, coffee and sodas. Passengers are only in the air on average 2 hours so no need for full scale catering as on long haul. It is all about customer choice, flexibility and availability. Otherwise can the catering all together and passengers simply bring their own!

traveller90

traveller90

29 Jan 2012

Total posts 108

Forgot to include, for J Class, a complimentary choice from the general menu so no need for second catering levels. As all the items on the menu are quality items anyway, all classes are covered!

GBRGB

GBRGB

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

21 Jan 2014

Total posts 220

The issue for VA is the amount of routes it services that has to be covered by better meals etc. QF is expanding Jetstar or Qlink  in most regional centres and avoids the costs associated with supplying meals for business customers, but VA will have to cover places like Mackay, Rocky, Alice Springs, Newcastle, Launceston etc with business meals, it will be a costly proposition.

Boof

Boof

29 Aug 2013

Total posts 60

Yep VA will have to cover Mackay, Rocky, Alice, Launy. They'll do ti with Tigerair. This will be the big shift that's been coming for a while now. Keep "peak" services to all destinations but replace "off peak" with TT. 

cavemanzk

cavemanzk

NZ

13 Aug 2016

Total posts 39

The simple solution would be to take the catering with you ex the main serviced port e.g. MCY-SYD you collect the meals in SYD. 

NZ does it with there Tasman/Pacific services to/from AKL we're all the meals are pre-loaded in AKL.

Amylou540

Amylou540

20 Jul 2017

Total posts 3

VA have already been doing 'return catering' for a few years. 

richard89

richard89

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

21 Mar 2017

Total posts 26

Return catering has always, always been the case. Even more so in V blue days.

wdeguara

wdeguara

Etihad - Etihad Guest

06 Apr 2012

Total posts 89

Maybe Virgin can consider offering customers an ability to pre-select a meal choice via their mobile app ? Could possibly incorporate it as part of the seat selection / online checkin steps.  Would also provide additional incentive for folks to use the mobile app. Just a thought. 

StuParr

StuParr

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

01 Mar 2012

Total posts 169

That was brought up in the customer feedback session that we attended. Also, picking up meal packs from the lounge for tiered FF's.

Jazzop

Jazzop

02 Dec 2016

Total posts 84

Both great ideas.  It's always struck me as odd that as a Platinum Velocity member, I can drink and eat as much as I want in the lounge but on board I get a 'snack'.

Gswift

Gswift

09 Jun 2017

Total posts 16

The other morning traveling from MEL - SYD I asked for a soda water instead of flat water and was advised that it would be $3. I was in EconomyX. VA could at least look at EconomyX as a point where a glass of soda water is not charged. The flight attendant smiled and said that she hated that she had to charge.
It is quite peculiar to have whatever you desire in the Lounge, but once aboard the aircraft you get water, tea, coffee or juice with a sugar laden muesli bar.

Rxm

Rxm

Jetstar Airways - Qantas Frequent Flyer

14 Jan 2017

Total posts 12

You don't really get that much in the lounge. Hot food is only available if you want to toast your own sandwich. Far cry from qantas lounge offer especially for business and platinum. 

David Robertson

David Robertson

13 Sep 2016

Total posts 24

There are some good things being considered here by Virgin. I like the idea of buying a meal or a 'lunch pack' at the departure gate, can imagine this will be much more efficient and reduce costs but also should let the airline offer a wider rage of fresher meals to economy passengers.

New Mint

New Mint

24 Feb 2012

Total posts 46

This is definitely good news. I would however prefer if they'd up the quality of meals offered in their lounges

deanr

deanr

04 May 2015

Total posts 231

Meals handed out at the gate? Great... so I get to nurse it during the rush while everybody is trying to board and during take-off when you can't have your tray down before it can actually be eaten, by which stage it'll be cold, or I'll be sick of holding it when I could be watching something on my iPad instead of studying the packaging. If I were going to do that I may as well just eat in the lounge or buy something fresh from one of the airport shops (or use Priority Pass for that handy restaurant credit).

In any case, VA really needs to get its act together: they carry on like Jetstar but charge fares equal to Qantas, yet somehow that's still not profitable for them and their customer experience is worse. For the love of god, please stop trying to charge $3 for a Diet Coke: even airlines in the USA give you free soft drinks and everybody moans about how bad they are!

Valerio

Valerio

Velocity

23 Feb 2016

Total posts 12

Exactly - I want to be settled, in a seat, and offered a decent snack. Ridiculous to be clutching a meal bag with carry on luggage for all those eastern seaboard short hops..

Gazzabay

Gazzabay

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

02 Jun 2017

Total posts 1

I have been a Platinum Member of Virgin for many years now but the idea of being loyal to Virgin is becoming less appealing by the flight.  When you pay $450+ to fly between Melbourne and Sydney or Brisbane, I find it almost insulting that they offer you a 20 cent biscuit and charge $3 for a soft drink.  At one stage in the past when you purchased what then was called a "Flexi- fare" which was the most expensive of the economy fares, you were offered a better standard meal and a drink identified by the passenger manifest.  As for the Economy X seats, well that is one sure way to lose your Platinum members real quick.  Taking approximately 2 to 3 flight every week have now turned into a raffle as to whether I will have a child kick the back of my seat in rows 3 or 4 or alternatively have a child hang over the back of their seat dropping food in my general direction.  Economy X has devalued the value or worth of the Platinum Member by 1. Making it more difficult to obtain a seat in the front of Economy rows and 2. Being assured you are amongst regular travellers that understand protocol.  Why not a least restrict the Economy X seats to full fare Economy passengers or at least introduce an age limit for Economy X passengers.  Qantas must be rubbing their hands together with this move from Virgin who once claimed they were attempting to challenge Qantas for the Business traveller, these two points argue the contrary.

Bob Greenberg

Bob Greenberg

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

08 May 2017

Total posts 13

Spot on Gazza Economy X is a disaster. All the good seats are now taken by passengers on the cheapest ticket who then pay another $29.00 for row 3 and Platinum end up down the back. I'm flying Qantas a lot more now.

milehigh

milehigh

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

30 May 2017

Total posts 1

I'm glad to see it's not just me who thinks the Economy X system is utterly ridiculous.
On the plus side as Bob mentioned, when flying Virgin I now simply book the cheapest available fare and 'upgrade' for the extra $29.00, no need to be concerned with things like 'loyalty'.

Jazzop

Jazzop

02 Dec 2016

Total posts 84

I really hope VA leadership read these threads.  I agree with everything said here.  The other good news with Economy X is, as Platinum you get a seat only to be bumped for someone paying for it.  Then you end up the back.  Hasn't happened to me, but did to a fellow FF who told me about it.

LP

LP

30 Jun 2016

Total posts 44

Ive had economy x seat on every flight I've taken since it's come out and I think I've had a spare seat next to me every time and twice a full row of 3 to myself. All but 1 flights have been reasonably full. Working great for me and a genuine platinum perk. I was close to switching to QF over the appalling food (particularly coast-coast) but the extra leg room has made me reconsider.

Victor G

Victor G

Etihad - Etihad Guest

02 Jul 2015

Total posts 17

I would love to see an improvement to the current paltry offering in Y class.  I suppose we have to be realistic in terms of what they can deliver without having to add extra cabin crew.  Maybe this means chilled items as opposed to hot meals. Perhaps a breakfast wrap on early morning services or a pasta salad on post-5pm departures.

LP

LP

30 Jun 2016

Total posts 44

Most of my flying is coast-coast with VA in economy. Food quality and size is abysmal considering the length of flight. I tried QF for a change earlier this month and the offering was a lot better. VA need to improve fast.

PER-ADL yesterday was a 70g sandwich bite for dinner service on a 3.5 hour flight.

tazza0712

tazza0712

27 May 2015

Total posts 24

I consider their current business class offering to be quite good, so any improvement there would be enjoyable but not what I would consider a necessity. The addition of a sparkling wine to the range is appreciated.

As for economy, I do believe they need to reconsider their offering and up the ante. I hadn't flown economy in years, and did a return day trip SYD to OOL in early June in Y and was quite shocked at the "snack". A muesli bar bite on the way up, and a packet of pretzels on the way down. 

I wasn't expecting a three course offering, but had figured a sandwich/roll would be in the mix. I was quite wrong, and by the sounds of it the coast-coast catering in Y isn't much better at the moment.

It sounds like VA are attempting to refine their domestic offering, if all goes as indicated, I think this will be another great shift for the airline. 

StuParr

StuParr

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

01 Mar 2012

Total posts 169

A few weeks ago a bunch of Platinum members in Brisbane were brought into a room and asked what we would like to see in the revamped Economy menu. The response was anything but what they are currently offering. They were told that the so-called meal was an insult and should be stopped. The brief we were given was food that could be served on-board without ovens for flights up to 3 hours long; basically taking in the Eastern capital cities.

They are taking it seriously so it will be interesting to see what they come up with. They mentioned that extensive consultations would continue, so it looks like that has finished and they are developing the new on-board offering.

highflyer

highflyer

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

10 Apr 2012

Total posts 301

A nice wrap, roll or sandwhich is what comes to mind.. and on asian routes, - Cold noodles comes to mind.  No need for ovens and can be "chilled" in trolley carts while loading to retain freshness.  

johnaboxall

johnaboxall

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

24 Aug 2011

Total posts 734

You don't fly VA for the food :) Last time the FF masses complained we got the Y flexi-wrap which was so bad people didn't eat it ... so now you're back to water and half a muesli bar (or a lump of chocolate). If you want free soft-drinks, it wouldn't surprise me if they switched to the cheaper Pepsi lines. 

Pro-tip - keep some zip-lock bags in your briefcase/etc. Make tasty sandwiches in the lounge for your flight. 

LisaW

LisaW

28 Jul 2017

Total posts 2

Thanks - like this idea

mcglynp

mcglynp

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

20 Jan 2016

Total posts 61

Firstly Kudos to VA for knowing they have a problem and looking to address it.  Great to see and it sits well with some of the other areas they are looking to improve.  

Personally,  I would prefer that VA just can the "snacks" for the shorter flights.  They are so perfunctory as to be annoying, Over 2 hours, then yes give out something substantial a proper sized sandwich/wrap.  I would prefer that VA did a decent drink offering.  Instead of the tea/coffee/juice/water,  have a range, sparkling and still.  Give out decent sizes. ( I hate the water cups ) , try and find a way to do halfway decent coffee. Or innovate and do cold brew or the like. If Southwest Airlines can do better drinks offerings why cant we..  

aniljak

aniljak

15 Sep 2012

Total posts 84

Why do we have such a difference  between business  amd economy  class now? Airlines have forgotten that economy passengers  still make up a large percentage  of their income! Bring back full hot meals like we used to get in 80s when you even got a full hot breakfast  between  Melbourne  and Canberra in 50 mins! Give us comfortable  seating. Start treating economy passengers  with the service  and respect we used to get! First airline to do this will get a lot of support!!!!!

Skipp

Skipp

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

20 Aug 2012

Total posts 126

Just remember though, the equivalent economy airfare you would have paid in the 1980's would have been much higher than in 2017, hence the airline in the 1980's would have been able to offer a more premium service for economy passengers.

rob01

rob01

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

10 Nov 2011

Total posts 122

I flew J class Sydney to Perth back in Feb and I remember them serving French champaagne, has that changed now?

Amylou540

Amylou540

20 Jul 2017

Total posts 3

@rob01 the French Champagne Ayala is still served on all transcon flights as it has been since the 330's came into the mix then followed onto 737 transcon services.

rob01

rob01

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

10 Nov 2011

Total posts 122

Phew! Thanks for confirming!

xtfer

xtfer

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

14 Mar 2017

Total posts 127

I'm ready to move to Qantas, literally because I'm sick of getting a snack that has more cardboard that carbohydrates. 

Three domestic flights on Delta this year, which is an inferior airline, and I got a fricken cheese platter in economy. Makes Virgin look terrible.

Please, Virgin, get this one right...

vickiej

vickiej

13 Mar 2017

Total posts 4

I'm another one that doesn't want to move away from Virgin, but looking at Qantas is becoming a possibility.

Virgin should take a good look at the Delta offerings.  I always fly Delta in the US, usually in their equivalent to Economy X (Comfort +).  Same flight times as here in Aus and Comfort + passengers got either a decent wrap or a cheese and fruit platter.  Not huge but 1000 times better than a tiny packet of terrible chickpea snacks.  And it really doesn't need to be a hot meal.  A smaller snack was given to normal Economy passengers.  Comfort + also includes drinks (can't recall if it included alcohol but i personally don't care about that, water is fine), premium entertainment access and a USB port in the seat.  All little things that would make their offering actually worth it.  

I'd also like to see Virgin give a bump up option to Frequent Flyers like Delta does.  To first class if there are available seats for Platinum, to Economy X if there are available seats for Gold and Silver.  

StuParr

StuParr

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

01 Mar 2012

Total posts 169

In our focus group I mentioned many times Delta as an example of an average US carrier doing really good things with the onboard product. I hope that they listened.

Truie

Truie

26 Jul 2015

Total posts 44

Firstly, I have to say in Virgin business, I've mostly enjoyed their offerings. Having said that, I flew Aegean a couple of weeks ago and and their offerings in economy from Paris to Athens was really enjoyable, perhaps they could look to some other airlines for ideas.

colin5353

colin5353

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

03 Jul 2011

Total posts 180

Whilst a lot of people hate JQ, at least I know what meal I've pre-purchased and have no one else to blame. The current VA "snack" is very much the Air NZ model. Mind you on my last domestic NZ flight AKL-CHC the crew were giving everyone two muffins as they were tiny. My last flight on MH, SIN-KUL a packet of peanuts and water or juice, no softdrink, tea/coffee served.

Robbo032

Robbo032

08 May 2017

Total posts 3

Do we REALLY even need to eat on a 50min flight, given a lot of us have just come from a lounge? #devilsadvocate

lazblue

lazblue

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

20 May 2013

Total posts 17

Probably not...   but airfares should be adjusted accordingly (i.e. charging JQ comparable fares rather than QF) to reflect this to set people's expectations given what's on offer on QF.

LisaW

LisaW

28 Jul 2017

Total posts 2

Just did four economy flights in 8 days on VA and the inflight catering was dreadful. However I have learned my lesson and eat in the Lounge if I need food and they have upped their game there. BUT the new EconomyX really irritates me - it is about 18 seats at $39 so $702 per flight they gain but I think it is not worth the irritation of hundreds of Frequent Flyers.

craigj77

craigj77

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

09 Aug 2016

Total posts 15

The current VA snack service is a joke - and woe betide you put the flight attendant to the hassle of you actually wanting to buy something.  Any change to the current arrangement would be a welcome improvement.

fish1983

fish1983

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

03 Jun 2014

Total posts 7

Years ago I worked in QFCL and for Triangle routes on the east coast between 10am-4pm they use to double cater for flights, why would VA not look at this as an option John Borghetti was still at Qantas in those days so he would surely be aware of that system and be able to make a much improved offering to all customers not just those in J.

Amylou540

Amylou540

20 Jul 2017

Total posts 3

Va have been return catering for years 

OzDino

OzDino

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

11 May 2015

Total posts 29

The big question - do you place the lunch pack in  the overhead locker or under the set for take-off? 

dandandan

dandandan

07 Mar 2013

Total posts 18

Meals;

I would offer meals in the flight booking process where you can order a selection of hot more substantial, better quality meals for a cost, maybe you get one included with economy x for free, then on the flights offer a selection of snacks. The Air Asia model for example. 

Economy X/Business;

Clearly more work should have been done on this. Malaysian Airlines has 737 business class correct, except the alcohol policy on flights under 3 hours. 4 rows of reclining business class with footrests. Virgin could reduce business class fares and likely sell more with 16 vs 8 seats likely to work better. Economy X is a poor offering. 

benbegg

benbegg

Qantas

15 Apr 2015

Total posts 2

Last time I flew on VA it was a 4.30 pm flight from SYD to ADL. I am a Velocity Gold so travel a lot. I knew the meal/snack was going to be limited. I had something at SYD prior to boarding. Well we received a chocolate biscuit and a very small packet of pretzels. Thats it! Mind you I did have a complimentary beer BUT the catering is beyond being poor it is insulting! Hope to hear it has improved soon!

RSD

RSD

Jetstar Airways - Qantas Frequent Flyer

12 Dec 2016

Total posts 5

Interesting to read all these comments. I have just returned from UK/ Europe and was absolutely amazed to be requested by BA to pay for a cup of tea on the London/ Reykjavik sector. No food whatsoever on a so called full service airline. On commenting to the chief trolley pusher, I was told that BA don't provide any comp refreshments on any short haul Route. Then took Croatian Airlines ex CPH and got  a very nice salad roll and drink free.  I know both VA and QF need to improve in this area however we are doing a lot better than Euro and US travellers. 

Jazzop

Jazzop

02 Dec 2016

Total posts 84

Even (some) of the US carriers are getting better.  Delta have started improving their meals/snacks.  On transcon you get the option of a meal pack, followed up with snacks later on.  AA give you nothing. 

lw1962

lw1962

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

26 Apr 2016

Total posts 24

I have to say, I am with Robbo and slightly bemused at the debate raging over a food option for a 1.5 hour flight. And sad to see most of it coming from seasoned flyers. I am happy to pay a reduced fare in exchange for a streamlined service. If I don't get fed on my $70 flight, I'm pretty sure I can find food in an hour and a half.

StuParr

StuParr

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

01 Mar 2012

Total posts 169

This is true. I mostly will not eat on a flight up to 2 hours long. It is useful if you didn't have time to get there or was caught on a call prior to boarding, however even then, this is rare.

bert

bert

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

23 Jun 2014

Total posts 35

I gave up on the food earlier this year. When it first appeared on east west flights it was basic but quite tasty. Now it is so bad they might as well start charging for it and improve the quality. The 330's are going from the east west soon, tiger is going to be looking better than virgin. Seats up front for 2/3 of the price of virgin.

talkscheap

talkscheap

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

10 Dec 2016

Total posts 45

i find the food and service in business very good, i don't drink champagne, but would love there to be a sparkling red. I am always amazed how pax complain so much about food for a one or two hour flight. its not like any of us are starving to death 

twitch1979

twitch1979

17 Aug 2016

Total posts 7

VA already serve Champagne  in J on "the business" coast to coast route served by the A330 such as PER to MEL etc ...  As someone else already commented I have found the found in J on domestic to be superior to what Qantas offer.

https://www.virginaustralia.com/cs/groups/internetcontent/@wc/documents/webcontent/~edisp/summ_15_menu_jd_aus_c1_drinks.pdf

Chris W

Chris W

28 Jul 2017

Total posts 1

I have been Platinum for last 5 years with VA plus always pay for business and loyal  to VA but with the lack of food to eat in business class I struggle to stay with VA due to allergies

I have flown  with VA due to excellent staff but  to the lack of gluten free products or the cart has not been loaded so many times with GF products I have to change to QA plus the lounges are so much better in business & Platinum with QA

VA has become lost in their offer to their Gold & Platinum supporters

Time for change

ZT

ZT

07 Jan 2017

Total posts 31

Think I might travel with QF next month to compare the overall service in the lounge and more importantly in flight.

LP

LP

30 Jun 2016

Total posts 44

I did this recently PER-BNE. Food and service was better with QF, both quality and quantity. The FA's also seemed to come round more often with refreshments.

Having no status with QF and the introduction of economy X has made deciding to switch a difficult decision. Subsequent flights I've still flown VA.

4WDazza

4WDazza

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

16 Apr 2016

Total posts 11

I've been Pt for 6 years and travel each month East West on a Y fare

The food is so bad I  refuse to eat it and either wait to eat on arrival or upgrade to J

In the J the package has got better

Focus groups are good but ask the crew what if any VA food they eat, most seem to BYO from home. 

The combination of loss of A330 on E-W and poor Y class meal is enough for me to make the move.

I've just converted all my pts to SQ vacation flights and have a zero points balance w VA

Mavers

Mavers

13 May 2016

Total posts 32

I fly regularly between Sydney and Perth, but the current food in Y is horrible. It used to be fine, but they don't even give you a tray anymore, just a VA branded napkin. Lets hope this in an improvement. 

robfol

robfol

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

23 Mar 2015

Total posts 39

I hope Virgin management read this thread. Their CEO should subscribe!

Steve987

Steve987

23 Feb 2015

Total posts 254

I have given serious thought to switching to VA from QF recently, but having read this thread I will stay where I am. 

It sounds like VA hasn't truly moved on from its VB days in any meaningful ways other than an improved EW business product and ... price.

tracman

tracman

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

30 Jul 2017

Total posts 1

Yes, having flown Qantas and VA recently long and short haul, and being a VA Gold for several years (and Plat in between).

 I'm appalled at VA's food offering in economy and economy X compared to Qantas (pricing is almost the same in some cases VA is more expensive). 

On  recent long haul not only was the VA food poor quality, it was flung at passengers with disdain in a soggy box, and little effort made to collect the rubbish.  The least they could have done was provide a basic tray with some hand wipes, a usable serviette and some plastic cutlery to eat the offering of a hot and runny pie or soggy breakfast sandwich.  

At least the boring pretzels or soy snacks on the Bris-Syd or Bris-Melb commuter are easy to eat if you must.

Yet jump on Qantas for a melb or syd  communte and the food and food service is fine.

I find VA business fine.  But the gulf is huge.

Working on switching too.


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