First photos: Qantas Boeing 787 premium economy seats

By David Flynn, February 23 2017

Here’s your first look at Qantas’ all-new premium economy seat for the Boeing 787, which will begin flying in Australian skies in October 2017 before heading to Los Angeles and London – with many more Dreamliner routes to follow.

So does it live up to the promise made by Qantas CEO Alan Joyce of being a “revolutionary” seat?

At first glance, no.

It’s a well-appointed seat, to be sure. Spacious, comfortable and stylish, shaped by thoughtful design with attention to detail…

… but even if feature-for-feature it trumps the rest of the premium economy market, it still doesn’t look like a revolutionary product, a game-changer for globe-trotters on a budget.

That’s because the most innovative parts of Qantas’ new Boeing 787-9 premium economy seat won’t be obvious until you’re sitting in it and getting ready for the long flight ahead.

Then, when you’ve pressed the right buttons and fiddled around a bit, you’ll discover the deeply-reclined seat puts you into a ‘lazy Z’ position in which pretty much every part of your body is supported, right down to a long netting ‘hammock’ for your feet.

While the seat itself has been designed from the ground up for Qantas, including extensive work by Australian industrial designer David Caon, it’s based on a prototype mechanism developed by Thompson Aero Seating – the same firm behind the Boeing 787’s business class seat (below).

Now let’s delve into the must-know details for the traveller, with the help of some time spent with the seat before its public unveilling.

These photos don't represent the seat at its truest colours, which draw on a charcoal palette with some 'burnt caramel' highlights – a combination which works exceptionally well in real life.

Qantas Boeing 787 premium economy seat specs

There are 28 seats in the Qantas Dreamliner’s premium economy cabin, arranged in four rows of 2-3-2 and sandwiched between the business class and economy sections.

The seat pitch – which approximates as an indicator of legroom – is 38 inches. That’s the same as the premium economy on Qantas’ Airbus A380, as well as most other airlines – although the 41 inches of Virgin Australia’s Boeing 777-300ER fleet is a notable standout.

But a fully-reclined seat in front of you will definitely encroach upon your space, unless you've also got your seat angled back – and it'll be a squeeze to get in and out of your seat when the person in front is in ultra-relaxed mode.

Qantas claims its Boeing 787 premium economy seat width is “up to 22.8 inches”, although it’s a bit more complicated than that.

The well-padded seat cushion is 19.5 inches wide, while the armrest-to-armrest distance – the standard way in which seat widths are measured – comes in at 20.5 inches, which is one inch more than on the Qantas A380.

Allowing for the extra space between the edge of the cushion and the inner wall of the armrests brings the total of what could be called ‘hip width’ to 22.8 inches.

Need a smidge more room? The middle seat of each premium economy row (the ‘E’ seats: 20E, 21E, 22E and 23E) is actually a bit wider again, at 23.3 inches.

(The outside armrests can also drop down, providing passengers with more useable space to spread out.)

A thick luxury pillow – more like a bolster in some ways – is fitted onto the seat’s winged headrest, so the pillow won’t slide around and slip down behind your back.

To while away the hours on those long flights there’s a 13.3 inch seatback video screen…

… but if you prefer BYO inflight entertainment, there’s a narrow frame in front of the screen into which you can slide a tablet (even one as large as a 13 inch iPad Pro).

The adjacent USB port is convenient for charging your tablet – or your smartphone, especially if you tuck the phone into the covered cubbyhole just below the screen.

This is also the place to park your reading glasses or other small bits of personal kit.

There’s a second USB port in the armrest between the seats; this is a high-powered port (2A, vs 0.5A for the screen-adjacent port) with plenty of juice to fully recharge your travel tech.

However, with one AC powerpoint for each pair of seats (or two sockets for the middle set of three seats) we suggest bringing a double-adaptor so you can share the socket with your seatmate.

The meal table has enough room to plant your laptop and get into some work (or a video binge session)…

… while a large pocket on the rear of each seat is perfect for tucking away your laptop when not in use.

Qantas counts the two small recesses chiselled into the armrest on either side of the seat as ‘storage areas’, although we’d suggest they are best suited to a notepad, travel diary or maybe a small tablet in a protective case.

There’s also a soft personal LED light in the shroud of each seat...

 ... and a pocket for stowing water bottles.

Oh, and for those who’ve been wondering which toilets are available to premium economy travellers: they get to use the two loos at the rear of the main business class cabin, rather than having to schlep through economy.

That's good news for the premium economy brigade but not so much for business class travellers, who'll have just one lav set aside exclusively for them – that being the WC at the very front of the cabin.

From A to B in a ‘lazy Z’

So how does the Dreamliner’s premium economy seat transform into a low-cost sleeper?

Step 1: press a button and the seat tilts back into a generous 9.5 inch recline…

… and at the same time, the base of the seat angles up and forward.

Step 2: pull the lever next to the video screen...

... and a supportive calf-rest/footrest swings down and forward. This is paired with a netting cradle into which you can tuck your feet.

Unlike the Qantas A380 premium economy, there’s no legrest built into the front of the Dreamliner seat – Caon says this is because it “has a limited range of motion” and “in the end it doesn't fully support your feet.”

“We opted for a full cradling of the body from head to toe,” Caon tells Australian Business Traveller.

The re-imagined legrest works on hydraulics and can be set into a wide range of positions, typically to support your calves while your feet slide into their own hammock.

“There’s a huge range of adjustability from an ergonomics point of view” Caon says, adding that Qantas has tested the seat with passengers of just about every size.

With the headrest extended, the seat can fully cradle a traveller of around 2.1 metres from tip to toe.

However, with so many variations on how the legrest can be positioned, finding their comfort ‘sweet spot' could prove an over-complicated process for many travellers.

This is where Qantas' Boeing 787 crew is going to have to work hard on explaining the seat to passengers and helping them find the right combination of settings.

What are your thoughts on Qantas' new Boeing 787 premium economy seat?

David

David Flynn is the Editor-in-Chief of Executive Traveller and a bit of a travel tragic with a weakness for good coffee, shopping and lychee martinis.

reeves35

reeves35

24 Aug 2011

Total posts 533

Unfortunately it looks like the revolution has failed.  This looks OK but it is hardly revolutionary.  It doesn't progress the W product past what is already offered by airlines such as SQ, doesn't have the legroom of VA and is nowhere near as innovative as what AF has put on their 789s.  Overall it is a bit disappointing.

The toilet situation is also a problem.  Having W class pax having to stumble through a darkened J class cabin to get to the toilet in the middle of the night is not going to be a great outcome for pax of either class.

Trogdor

Trogdor

11 Dec 2015

Total posts 74

Agreed. Apart from the tricky footrest there's nothing here that wasn't on Singapore Airlines PE 2 years ago. 

SteveCF

SteveCF

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

15 Aug 2012

Total posts 170

I think we all need to take a breather and wait till we try it. It was never going to be direct aisle access or flat bed technology which would cannibalise Business. The game changer will be if you can sleep comfortably, and I think this design has some interesting innovation and could be a big step up.

Davedownunder

Davedownunder

19 Aug 2011

Total posts 51

says Alan Joyce, Qantas CEO. "This new Premium Economy seat has serious wow factor. You have to experience how well it supports you when you recline to realize it's completely different from anything else in its class."


I suspect Alan has only sat in the seat for five minutes rather than 17 hours. Its hard to see where the promised revolution is. 


The netting on the footrest might work as this in the past has always been a problem of getting a comfortable support for the feet for long periods.


Sorry gets a thumbs 👎 Back to the drawing board boys and only come out when you have something truely "revolutionary"

mviy

mviy

05 May 2016

Total posts 527

It seems to be a good step forward but not revolutionary. QANTAS set the expectations too high by calling it revolutionary.

eminere

eminere

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

25 Sep 2013

Total posts 1131

Correct. They seem to have forgotten it's better to underpromise and overdeliver.

Qf41

Qf41

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

23 Feb 2017

Total posts 8

A swing and a miss.
38 inches of leg room?? Going to be difficult for those in the window seat and middle seat to get out. yuck.
Using the business toilets? Now know not to get a seat in the second business cabin!
Nice design. But not revolutionary. 

patrickk

patrickk

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 399

Qf41 the current PE on the 380 shares the business lav. The difference is that on the 787 it is a bit further into the cabin. when they do the 380s with the same seat I suspect it will be in the same place as now and also share the business lav.

Qf41

Qf41

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

23 Feb 2017

Total posts 8

Yes, but just because they do it now on the a380, doesn't mean they should design the layout in this aircraft.
Also, PE customers do not walk through the J cabin now.

cavemanzk

cavemanzk

NZ

13 Aug 2016

Total posts 39

38" Pitch is an joke when VA/NZ have 41-42" Pitch. 

Tracie

Tracie

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

30 Oct 2015

Total posts 46

Still prefer the VA premium option - need those few extra inches for comfort.

Don't really want to have to read a manual just to use a seat in premium economy.

Alex McG

Alex McG

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

24 Feb 2017

Total posts 2

Agreed. VA Premium was great.

tonywills

tonywills

09 Nov 2011

Total posts 88

Had to get that nasty burnt orange in there somewhere. Oh well they spared the armrests from it. Not exiting - It would be VA for me. Now that VA are direct LA from Melbourne soon I can avoid the very unreliable A380 with dated Business class and inconsistent cabin crew

tonywills

tonywills

09 Nov 2011

Total posts 88

The second Business class cabin has the toilet issue as well as 3 baby bassinet seat in close proximity. Hmmmm

ajstubbs

ajstubbs

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

15 Mar 2016

Total posts 169

I like the look of them in aesthetic terms. However the pitch and leg room are a bit disappointing. I'm staggered at the toilet situation as well especially on long haul! It's not a bad product and the proof is in trying it out, hard to know true comfort levels without sitting in the seat!, but it's not as amazing as expected. 

Grannular

Grannular

31 Mar 2014

Total posts 288

After such a build up and so much hype, that looks disappointing and incredibly tight. It will be interesting to see people try and get out of hte window seat

mcglynp

mcglynp

Virgin Australia - Velocity Rewards

20 Jan 2016

Total posts 61

Wow.. what a crashing disappointment.  Talk about over promising and under delivering.  At 38 inch the experience is going to feel a lot less than premium when the person in front traps you in your seat for hours on end. The extended shroud around the seat probably only serving to increase the claustrophobia when it comes back in your face.  Both VA and Air NZ has markedly superior products here.

rj

rj

11 Nov 2013

Total posts 17

Hard to comment without actually flying in it, but agree this is certainly not revolutionary. Legroom is disappointing. 

I do like they overall look though, looks very stylish. 

blingwad

blingwad

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

04 Jun 2015

Total posts 67

Looks like a great seat and an improvement on what is in the market now. But by promising revolutionary i think they were going to fail with anything less that an angled or lie flat bed. 

John Phelan

John Phelan

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

28 Oct 2011

Total posts 322

........ and they wouldn't do that, because it would cannibalise the J market. 

RealKid

RealKid

20 May 2014

Total posts 79

I think QF oversold this a bit, but it looks like one of those things where the proof will really be in how it feels.

A fully supported cradle-like position is the most ideal position for premium economy, in my opinion, and even AirNZ's new seats (with 42 or so inches of pitch) don't really accomplish that.  It looks like these seats might, so I am cautiously optimistic.

Serg

Serg

QFF

12 Apr 2013

Total posts 1446

Nothing "revolutionary" except of big screen and yes, I rather have few inches less screen and few inches more legroom. Also they do recline back in face of rear passenger. Though "lazy Z' may be quite comfy for day flight.

patrickk

patrickk

Qantas

19 Apr 2012

Total posts 399

It seems it is a compromise between the sliding shell that CX had a few years back (and I for one hated) and the full lean back into the person behind you's lap. They say the recline is 9 inches but the effecive recline for the person behind is four inches (all to do with two pivot poists and the like). As they say the proof of the pudding is in the eating so I will see next year some time or later.  Might try an LA flight!!!

Serg

Serg

QFF

12 Apr 2013

Total posts 1446

Flight to LA is way too long to enjoy any PE.

Looking

Looking

10 Aug 2015

Total posts 118

I err on that the seat would need to be tried to be understood. But so far it looks like a fail, there are so many ways they could have created a "value" sleeping seat which remains distinctly inferior to business. 

I am curious to know though, did they test it by having people sit in the prototype for 17 hours?

Nick Sydney 2

Nick Sydney 2

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

22 Jul 2015

Total posts 223

Much moaning on the board today. Proof of the pudding or rather the sitting in the seat. Until then its all conjecture. Being a QFF fanboy I'm looking forward to trying it. 

downdata

downdata

28 Dec 2016

Total posts 69

This would be good enough for a 3 hr flight. but anything longer...

Serg

Serg

QFF

12 Apr 2013

Total posts 1446

ANY PE seats so far not "revolutionary" better than Y for flying to/from Europe and especially so overnight. I would say that they should be OK (not great, just bearable) for day flight to Asia and this is about it.

fftraveltimes

fftraveltimes

02 Dec 2015

Total posts 30

I can see the design hints from their exceptional A330 business class seat in this PE seat here but it is a shame about the leg room. I am worried about the hopping over the other passenger aspect when the seats are reclined during the middle of the night. Otherwise the product looks slick, just not revolutionary.

AndrewOracle

AndrewOracle

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

23 Feb 2017

Total posts 1

Lack of decent extra space between seats is a deal breaker for me.

aussieboyaussie

aussieboyaussie

20 Aug 2012

Total posts 114

I still hate the thought of someone reclining into my space, that's why I love the Air NZ PE Spaceseat, well for as long as it continues ot be around anyway.

Antherny

Antherny

10 Jan 2017

Total posts 5

Nothing really revolutionary about this new seat at all. In fact by the figures they provide there are many other seats currently being used by other airlines with 1. more leg room 2. better recline 3. better use of a foot rest. Poor effort Qantas! The worst part is they will jack up the price and make it double the price of the original premium economy.

Tez22

Tez22

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

23 Aug 2012

Total posts 23

At first glance this looks like it would be okay if you had the front row in PE, but looking closer at the seat map it appears there are bassinets on both outboard pairs. I don't know how they are going to manage the IFE screens, cubbyhole and footrest if this is the case. Perhaps back to in-arm screens ??

Joe

Joe

03 May 2013

Total posts 376

Come on Qantas, seriously your toilets for Business Class pax is becoming an insulting joke. Please gather your brains trust and re-visit that again. Paying Business Class passengers shouldn't have to queue behind Premium Economy pax to go to the toilet. This is especially an issue with pyjamas needing to be put on and taken off. I thought this aircraft was being configured for the ultra long hauls.....so far fail from lav perspective and Premium Economy seat pitch of 38". You got Business class and Economy seats right however, which is some saving grace.

A330

A330

16 Feb 2016

Total posts 1

Not as revolutionary as Qantas had originally claimed. It's probably a step up from its current design, but the seat pitch leaves much to be desired. 

I'm disappointed. 

Alex Moris

Alex Moris

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

10 Jan 2017

Total posts 39

Thanks QF... always behind the 8 ball! nothing revolutionary about it and having to share the Lavs with business when they only have 3 toilets - not acceptable. Looks like Virgin Australia for pacific routes and Qatar or Emirates for Atlantic routes and Singapore for Asian routes for me. 

Also worth noting by the time QF's Dreamliner is in service and if they update their A380s - both aircrafts won't really be offering the latest products as all the other top airlines will be updating to newest products and leave QF behind as usual. Emirates has already commenced updating their A380s with new business class seats and are planning to introduce Premium Eco, while Qantas continues to fly the grey coffins and call it business class.

Mightyreds

Mightyreds

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

09 Feb 2015

Total posts 265

Upgrade the A380's with new product as is likely to happen and give me the A380 over the 787 all day!! The feeling of so much more space.

undertheradar Banned

undertheradar Banned

28 Oct 2011

Total posts 662

Am in agreement with 'RealKid'.  Slightly overhyped, (but hey, that's nothing new in the world of advertising),  Of course my 'judgement' (at the moment) can only be based on pics and descriptions/info provided. So on that basis, I like the features/design/look of this seat, but as stated, 'the proof will really be how it feels'/performs. The same 'space' can be manipulated/used to achieve better efficiencies than previous 'versions' of that space.  Anyway, that's my 2cents worth.

iM

iM

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

27 Jul 2016

Total posts 49

Looks good and will be interesting to try, which I'm doing out of LA in Dec (going up in economy to compare the difference).  The bottom line is it's Premium Economy not Cheap Business, and I think people get hung up expecting far too much from what essentially is just a level above cattle class. Like so many things I'd suggest people give it a go before launching into criticisms from an untried perspective. But people do like a good whinge...

Rusty1

Rusty1

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

06 Jul 2014

Total posts 22

As a self-paying Business and First Class international traveller, I can't accept the paucity of toilets for J Class on such a long haul flight. I'll be giving the 787 a miss.

GregXL

GregXL

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

26 May 2014

Total posts 399

The concept of PE using lavs in J is fine, much more sensible than PE going to Y, BUT only if there are sufficient lavs in J.  3 lavs to 70 premium passengers ?

reeves35

reeves35

24 Aug 2011

Total posts 533

THe concept would be fine if the toilets were lcoated between J and W class.  In this case, the W pax have to walk through the J cabin to get to the toilets; that is not acceptable.

Arcanum

Arcanum

21 Jul 2012

Total posts 125

Finally someone has figured out that you can create extra seat width just by lowering the outer armrests!  I don't know why this isn't a standard feature, especially in economy where every cm counts.

mancho90

mancho90

United Airlines - Mileage Plus

13 Mar 2015

Total posts 76

I think the help of inclining the backrest of the seat to certain level, then the inner seat itself recline more and elevates the position and angle your body it makes a big difference, because you don't recline the backrest too much as LH, AC or BA but the inner seat reclines more and angle to give a great Lazy Z position... I think is an improved version of AF, NH, JL has today...the reclining in those seats is not very comfortable... here it looks much better. The main issue for me is the 38" of legroom... I think should be a bit more to make it mroe comfortable for those on windows and middle seats. Not sure yet... probably will love to have a window seat but with this one probably only in the Bulkhead only for a very long flight...otherwise the aisle.

Timmy22bc

Timmy22bc

18 Oct 2015

Total posts 34

What an absolute let down, I desperately want to support Qantas but they don't make it easy... 

russell

russell

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

04 Nov 2011

Total posts 327

Simply not enough pitch, and the lav situation is a real concern. As for the seat, well as feared it's not a revolution. However, I think It needs to be tried first before the ultimate judgement can be made. A valiant effort, however an increase of a few inches in the pitch and an extra lav (things that are pretty easy to address) would have made it a knock out. Oh and I like the tv screen!

John C

John C

Air New Zealand - Airpoints

08 Aug 2014

Total posts 39

Nah. Doesn't do it for me. Looks cramped and you still get assholes reclining their seat backs into your space. Will stick to Business Class. And has anyone else noticed how HARD cabin interiors are these days with all the plastic mouldings and faux-metal plastic trims and whatnot and office-like decor? Call me old-fashioned but I yearn for the good old days of big fat squashy seats that were like a little island you sank into. That's flying luxury to me.

eminere

eminere

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

25 Sep 2013

Total posts 1131

"Will stick to Business Class."

And I bet that's exactly what QF wanted to hear.

MR1961

MR1961

17 Feb 2016

Total posts 24

It looks fine, and having a foot rest is excellent. I'm a biggish size person, however, and older, and having the ability to extend my legs fully means I will always fly business or first on flights greater than 7-8 hours. 

Joe

Joe

03 May 2013

Total posts 376

Wonder if this W seat will become the "revolutionary" new QF Domestic J Class seat in time?

bmq747

bmq747

05 May 2016

Total posts 7

Disappointing. 

It even looks dated already. 

RickBlain

RickBlain

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

21 Jul 2014

Total posts 14

I like the lazy Z concept, sitting in one in a backyard recently made me a convert. So that's clever, but if you are going to have a reclining seat in front of you then surely more legroom is needed. Couldn't the lazy Z concept have worked with the seat sliding down within a shell?

StudiodeKadent

StudiodeKadent

20 May 2015

Total posts 584

The only real problem I see is the layout of the toilets but other than that it looks like a good Premium Economy product. Standard legroom, above-standard width, cradle recline and generous seat amenity. Not revolutionary but certainly an upgrade over the current product..

I admit I am not a fan of the 'burnt caramel' though but maybe it looks less crappy IRL than in photos. 

camrs88

camrs88

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

04 Jan 2015

Total posts 1

This looks quite similar to CX's 'regional business class' - which is average...! 

henrus

henrus

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

23 Oct 2013

Total posts 714

Someone might be able to answer this but with the space reserved for premium economy would they have been able to fit an angled flat bed like EK 777's or even the old VA A330's/current FJ A330's?

I know it would have bought the product closer to a business lite product, but it would have allowed them to charge more and possibly attract more customers.

reeves35

reeves35

24 Aug 2011

Total posts 533

Airlines would be loathe to go down this route as it would cannibalise Business Class, just as the upgrading of Business Class has effectively destroyed First Class.  It is important to keep a gap between the products.    

hardytraveller

hardytraveller

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

23 Feb 2017

Total posts 9

Joyce has been listening too much to his marketing guys.   Certainly not "revolutionary"   Biggest fault is that the seat reclines.   Unlike JAL whose PE seat reclines within its own space, therefore not intruding on the passenger behind.   Back to the drawing boards. 

reeves35

reeves35

24 Aug 2011

Total posts 533

You are correct.  It is good to increase the angle of recline but only if you increase pitch.  QF has increased recline whilst leaving pitch unchanged and this will be a problem that can only be solved by either reducing the recline angle or creeping out pitch by 2 or 3".

It is a bit of a mystery how this problem was not identified during product testing.  It looks fairly obvious in photos so I can't see why it wasn't highlighted during prototyping.

aturnbull

aturnbull

16 Feb 2016

Total posts 30

I quite like these seats. Maintains differentiation between classes and focuses on width and ergonomics. Considering they gave an extra in of pitch for Y  I would of thought having this cabin at 40in would have been better as it sounds much better and takes into account the seat recline.  I wonder if it was kept at 38 because any more would not allow the best use of the legrest. An extra 8 inches surely would be easy to facilitate.

Toilets are less of an issue. 17hr flights mean there is plenty of time to change. PE pax can always go back to use Y if required. 

Motorhead

Motorhead

05 Oct 2016

Total posts 5

Premium economy needs an upgrade or price decrease as the current offering on most airlines isn't worth the large price jump from an exit row economy seat & gets too close to business.

autvlr

autvlr

12 Apr 2011

Total posts 68

So the footrest is "latched" onto the seat in front. I wonder how "strong" the latch is because if you need to forcefully push the footrest to store it, it's going to annoying for the person in front as the seat shakes while you move the footrest around.

alex_upgrade77

alex_upgrade77

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

08 Sep 2012

Total posts 244

Not sure if this has already been suggested, but perhaps the reason the seat isn't too revolutionary is that QF don't want to canibalise their Business Class demand. This PE product is good but it won't make many people want to trade down from Business especially now that Business offers direct aisle access for everyone. 

With the A380 PE I often wondered, for day flights, whether the extra cost of Business was worth it. That won't be the case here.

It's good. But not too good. 

ThePerthTrav

ThePerthTrav

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

18 Dec 2016

Total posts 33

I like where they were going, but they ultimately screwed it up with the legroom, and foot rest.

TAADC9

TAADC9

10 Feb 2012

Total posts 9

Sorry but the original PE product is a much better design (I'll miss it), especially when it comes to shoulder width. Those side wings on the new PE don't allow your shoulders and chest/arms to spread out, especially if your tall. In regards to recline? I'm stunned they didn't copy the Japan Airlines/Air France type of PE, whereby, the seat retracts down and not back. So not that revolutionary. 

Fonga

Fonga

12 Feb 2014

Total posts 227

The more I look at it, the better I like it. Qantas have come up with the goods on the Business Suite so I'm prepared to extend the same confidence to this new product. Hard, though, to make a judgement call on something that really needs to be experienced. I like the drop down armrests. I'm guessing this makes it easy to swing legs into the aisle to allow someone to exit next to you. 

I love the PE product now, and am looking forward to giving this new seat a go. Stylish and smart. What we expect of Qantas.

Gian

Gian

VA Platinum

26 Mar 2014

Total posts 117

Agree with all the comments above regarding aesthetics, over promising under delivering and can't judge it properly until fluing in it etc etc. 

The problem is here, I don't feel airlines can deliver anything truly "revolutionary" in this class. The main reason for this is they are always trying to strike a fine balance between convincing people PE is worth paying double (sometimes more) than Y, while more importantly, not cannibalising their J revenue from people who drop out from buying J consistently and fly PE instead because it is "good enough."

We all want PE to be good enough for the asking price, but the airlines perspective is to make it "not good enough to steal paying J pax."

Hard to find a happy place for everyone I think. 

johnnypc67

johnnypc67

28 Nov 2012

Total posts 90

The lazy Z  compared to the market it is some what revolutionary. I think it is great. PE is designed more for passengers going up from economy rather than down from Business. A fixed shell would have been better at that pitch though. Looking forward to trying it out

OOLflyer

OOLflyer

13 Feb 2017

Total posts 21

I can't believe that they have repeated the same mistake that Air NZ initially made with their genuinely revolutionary SpaceSeat. Too little pitch between rows destroying a promising design.

It's a false economy: it took six weeks before NZ had to remove a row and the supposed economics went down the toilet.

The QF seat would be a narrow winner over VA and NZ if it matched their 41/42 inch pitch.

But 37-38 inches means that the improved recline will be a disaster for the row behind.

This will be a clear fail in the 787. The question is whether it can work as an A380 retrofit if enough pitch is allowed.

johninoz

johninoz

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

01 Apr 2011

Total posts 29

Complete and utter waste of time and energy.  Why do they even bother.  They just don't get the message - LEGROOM, LEGROOM, LEGROOM.  This is basically no better than what cattle class used to be just a few years ago.  On a long flight you need to be able to get out of your seat, to go to the bathroom, to stretch your legs etc.  Well nigh impossible with this stupid seat. Granted it will be marginally more comfortable that Cattle, but at the price, it is not worth it.  I am bitterly disappointed.  Been saving my QFF points for a trip to London for my partner and I. Can only manage enough for 2 PE seats - provided they don't "improve" the QFF scheme before then.  That dream has gone up in smoke, unless the A380 is better.  I won't ever being doing the 18 hour flight from Perth, but I would still struggle with the 13½ hours to Dubai etc.  One can only hope we get some new enlightened management at Qantas soon.

GoldenClub

GoldenClub

15 Jan 2013

Total posts 37

Nice but not a revolutionary product - an totally agree that 38 inch pitch just doesn't cut it on ultra long haul flights. For the sake of an extra two inches they've disappointed many rather than wowing them. :-(

GregXL

GregXL

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

26 May 2014

Total posts 399

I guess the negativity of a lot of comments confirms it was oversold.  There is definitely some worthy innovation there with the Z seat concept, which seems to be overlooked because it doesn't measure up to expectations set by the "revolutionary" claim.  Being a taller person, I often find that features such as foot rests do not provide any comfort gain.  If the footrest on this seat has some element of adjustment, maybe it will work for the longer legs.   I have reservations about knee clearance as the seat base pitches up and the seat in front reclines back.  It would be informative to see a 2.1m (or even 2m) person in there with all the seats reclined.  Happy to volunteer! 

J-sh

J-sh

29 Oct 2016

Total posts 35

Business has lost amenity with this configuration. PE will be difficult for people squished behind fully reclined seats especially those not on an aisle and Economy has been fitted with the extra narrow 3-3-3 configuration. What a sad undermining of what might have been.

The 2 class JAL configuration would be much better: Business with its own lavatories, no PE and decent Economy with 2-4-2 perhaps at a slightly higher price but people who see advantage in non-stop ultra long distance flights would pay for that convenience.

As it is with PE on board Qantas have had to create a reason for  the PE price point by making Economy uncomfortable and a reason for the Business price point by making PE unattractive, but still make Business share its lavatories. All for just three rows of PE.

Looks like the Qantas 787 will be an aircraft to avoid for all three classes.

Rusty1

Rusty1

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

06 Jul 2014

Total posts 22

An excellent summary J-sh of all the issues raised. Overall, I think Qantas' interior designers lost sight of the fact these aircraft will be doing extra-long hauls of a continuous 17 hours or so and have sacrificed comfort and pleasure for all classes just to cram in a few more seats. Perhaps AJ and his senior design team members would like to travel in PE on the inaugural flight! 

Hewnix

Hewnix

11 Dec 2016

Total posts 13

As someone who pays for his own flights and loves Qantas, this looks great, and I do like the "Z" seating as well as the foot rest. However, the price gap between PE and Economy is too large to justify the personal expenditure - PE is about $4000 when Economy is around $1400. At this point, as much as I despise United, I'd purchase Economy on their 787 then pay $200 to upgrade to Economy Plus and enjoy the extra leg room and Wi-Fi (which is quite good). 

I realise this is a business travel site and most don't pay their own fares but those of us in self-employment / SME do consider these options so thought I would offer that perspective.

Chris2304

Chris2304

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

10 Apr 2013

Total posts 387

QF needs to add 1 more toilet for business class and add an extra 3 inches for pitch to 41. 

Chris2304

Chris2304

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

10 Apr 2013

Total posts 387

QF/AJ if you are reading this please make these 2 changes!

livejon

livejon

12 Jan 2016

Total posts 13

Glad to see a reasonable foot rest, which is sorely missing in the current PE. Ergonomics and support will tell the tale, and that will require an actual test-run before judgement. 

mitchimus

mitchimus

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

23 Mar 2012

Total posts 209

Definition of revolutionary - involving or causing a complete or dramatic change. 

I'm not sure that this seat gets anywhere near that. It looks OK and has a few nice features but not sure it fits the case for  a complete or dramatic change over what is available on other carriers or even their own current PE product. 

mitchimus

mitchimus

Qantas - Qantas Frequent Flyer

23 Mar 2012

Total posts 209

maybe adding some decent seat pitch and not reclining into the lap of the person behind along with the features might have made it a 'revolutionary' product.

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