Qantas ditches Dubai, returns A380 to Sydney-Singapore-London

HALLELUJAH Praise be to Jesus

QF1 traditionally was Sydney-Bangkok-London. Bangkok should be the premier hub in Asia for QANTAS

Love BKK as a stopover. I remember when I worked at QF in the 80's they also used to stopover in Mumbai

I think it was QF9 Originating in Melbourne with a stop in Sydney then Bombay then London

Sydney flight did it

I can remember, Sydney, Singapore, Muscat London.    Use to have to stay on plane in Muscat white their refuelled

I can recall doing Melbourne Bangkok Bahrain Athens as a kid, my how times have changed

Agree, plus BKK would be 2 hours less to LHR. Sad that QF is not strongly represented in BKK. Stunning, really. Sad too that they shuttered the Roo lounge which was a nice oasis, small but quiet w/plenty of light. CX lounge is new, but horrendously overcrowded and noisy.  Always the gems are lost.

Gone are those good old days for cabin crew to see the cities they fly to. Thanks to advanced technology enabling aircrafts to fly 14 hours more non-stop. Cabin crews now only get enough stopover time to rest and go back on a flight. 

Because Bangkok is the business hub of Asia? Hmmmm

Bangkok is one of the most popular tourist destinations in the world and it is indeed also popular as a business destination. The Thai eastern seaboard is known as the "Detroit of Asia" because of the large number of automobiles manufactured there, some 200,000 of which are exported to Australia yearly, and growing. As nice a place as Singapore is (and I definitely prefer Changi over Suvarnabhumi as a transit airport), but how can an economy based on the non-productive sectors of banking, finance and insurance justify so many flights from Australia while Thailand, with 900,000 Aussie visitors a year comparatively so few? Years ago when far fewer Aussies were travelling to Thailand, Qantas used to operate routes from Sydney to Bangkok and continuing from there not just to London, but also Rome and Frankfurt. Even Melbourne and Darwin used to have flights to Bangkok, but eventually only Sydney-Bangkok-London remained. Instead, Qantas revved up services from Australia to Singapore, flying from each of the 5 major capital cities (although Perth was axed for a while), despite the huge competition from Singapore Airlines that not only offers better service, a much better network but also more flights on each route they serve.

Yes, you would think so. Thailand is hugely popular with Aussie travellers, with close to a million visiting every year. The Aussie embassy in Bangkok is by far the largest and most important in Asia, far exceeding that of Singapore. Thailand is cheaper, most travellers prefer it to Singapore as a holiday and stopover destination, very rarely are there any exceptions to this. Even as a business destination it's gaining traction - Thailand is a major manufacturer of chemicals, light electronics and automobiles and many of these products end up being exported to Australia. By contrast, Singapore makes almost nothing.

I have noticed that some European airlines have followed the same trend as Qantas though - British Airways, Lufthansa and Air France have scaled down operations to Bangkok over the years and there doesn't seem to be any good reasons why. The former used to fly onto Sydney from Bangkok, with the other daily flight going through Singapore. Since 2013, they dropped the Bangkok-Sydney service and now only fly London-SIN-SYD. Their London-Singapore services also use larger planes than their London-Bangkok services; Lufthansa operates an A380 on their Frankfurt-Singapore services and also operate a separate Munich-Singapore service. Meanwhile, their Frankfurt-Bangkok service only uses an older A340, while the Munich-Frankfurt service has been dropped altogether years ago, along with Bangkok-KUL and Bangkok-SGN services. Ho Chi Minh is no longer served by Lufthansa at all anymore, while Frankfurt-KUL services are now non-stop. Air France only operates 3 weekly flights to Bangkok compared to Thai's daily A380 flights.

This can't all be due to a decrease in passenger numbers. Europeans are continuing to travel to Thailand in large numbers and for the first time, Thai travellers are becoming significant too. THAI is/has opened up new routes such as Bangkok-Brussels and soon Bangkok-Vienna, competing with Austrian Airlines which has been operating the latter route for years now. It must be that European airlines are feeling the pinch of Middle Eastern carriers such as Qatar, Emirates and Etihad, all of which fly to almost every major European city and serve Bangkok with 5-6 flights daily each mostly using A380 aircraft.

It was originally Singapore before they changed to Bangkok, then later reverted to Singapore.

A move for the better ´Dubai was over before it began!

Did exactly the same thing!! I did not see this one coming

Well there used to be MELBOURNE- HONG KONG- LONDON

People can still go via DXB if they want (on a QF codeshare flight on EK) - especially if their onward connection is to continental Europe.

Exactly. This isn't a return to the QF/BA JV. Emirates is still Qantas' European partner and if you want to fly anywhere other than London, Qantas is now forcing you to fly 100% on EK. No more QF 1/9 to Dubai and then onto Europe. But for those travelling only to London, it's a great move.

They are still giving the option to fly QF to SIN or BKK, then connect to EU via HEL on AY.

It's a good option if you're looking for good quality J at a keen price and don't mind two stops.

It's the same guy in charge buddy. It just takes time to rebuild an airline and make it one of the most profitable. Maybe now some of the armchair experts on this site will cut Qantas a break

Have to agree. Until QF upgrade J seating and hopefully start serving substantial food...not "small" and "main" plate concept the better. QF cartering has never won any awards officially or otherwise in recent past.

Looks like a 5 or 6 hour layover if you took QF35 first and connected to QF1. QF37 will have shorter connection but no first.

mviy, my thoughts exactly! No one was mentioning this but I felt this was a huge thumbs up for Melbourne pax - now have the option of a brand new B787 J/Y or for those wanting F can still get via one-stop in SIN!

I'm not so sure, given the number of seats that EK puts on between DXB and Australia every day. 

@Patricka340:

Yay!! Someone else who gets it! This is precisely why the EK partnership was formed. It was always Joyce's plan/vision that once the metal can operate non-stop services to major EU hubs from the east coast, EK will become the codeshare provider for services to secondary EU cities via DXB.

You can fly BNE-SIN on QF51 then connect to the new QF1 SIN-LHR.

I wonder whether the QF51/QF52 (BNE<>SIN) flight will connect up with the new a380 service in Singapore ?  If so, that would be good news at it will finally give BNE folks a path to fly with Qantas International to London without having to travel via SYD.

I don't see why they wouldn't connect: even if no changes are made to QF51/52, QF51 gets into SIN well before QF1, and QF52 leaves just after QF2.

As QF51 lands 20 minutes after QF35 from MEL I suspect QF1 will be timed to pick up passengers from both enroute to LHR. Similar to how all 3 flights to LAX feed into the JFK flight.

MEL pax are better flying QF37/1 to LHR so 330/380, then 2/36 back both 380

They just announced 4 787s based in Bne so I'd say that is some 'tin'

We're currently on the phone with Alan Joyce and Gareth Evans, and the short answer for Adelaide-Singapore is 'no', as Adelaide passengers can fly Emirates from Adelaide to London (and Europe) via Dubai, and with Qantas from Adelaide to London via Perth.

Qantas has tipped using its newly-spare Airbus A330 jet for further expansion in Asia, although the specific route is yet to be announced.

I hope its to either Seoul or Sapporo (Seasonal)

Melbourne to Bangkok please!

This HAS to be on the cards soon

@MEL Traveller:

upgrade perth to singapore to an A330. 

Yes! Definitely..

as well as a still spare a380

And also Singapore is such a commercial hub of Asia  and the SG-LHR-SG route is so important for corporate travel connecting to Australia. 

I think it is done...

poor utilisation of the A380. it will be sitting in London all day 

It already sits there all day. No other way to do it.

Not true. The SYD and MEL A380's arrive early morning and early afternoon respectively, allowing both aircraft to stay on the ground for shorter periods of time.

It wasn't that long ago that both the SYD and MEL A380s sat on the ground all day in LHR, though.

who cares how long they sit there?

Yes - the QF1 aircraft which arrives early morning from Sydney turns around to operate QF10 back to Melbourne in the middle of the day, while the QF 9 aircraft is there for the afternoon before returning as QF2. So pulling the QF9/10 A380 services will reduce the A380 utilisation, not the decision for QF1/2 to go via Singapore.

Hmmmm poorly worded. 

Interesting that the Melb flight to line up with QF1 is an A332. Which means for PE all the way through, you have a long transit time in Singapore. 

I just looked at those SIN-MEL times and thought that would work well for my holiday, but had to remind myself that this is from end of next March, not this coming November. :(

Six hour transit in SIN ex MEL if we want to stick with an A380, are they serious?  Or am I reading this wrong?  No way, Jose!

Emirates doesn't have the traffic rights to sell codeshares on Qantas' Singapore-London (or Perth-London) flights, so these won't carry EK codes.

Skywards members can still book these legs as reward flights using Skywards miles, however.

The second Sydney – Singapore daily service will continue to be operated by an A330 aircraft. If you want to fly the business suite you can fly the business suite.

You can still fly QF81/82 SYD<>SIN on the A330 with the new business seats until all A380s are upgraded....  ;)

I believe the QF A330 provides the best business hard product between Australia and Sinagpore but for me the schedule of flights is the most significant factor (of course cost is a factor) when choosing a flight. I try to maximise my working time and family time so generally travel in the evening and over night. I tend not to use QF81/82 unless there is a large disparity in the price of this flight. 

Ideally, you'd have the A380 from MEL connect tightly to QF1/2, but you can't do that because QF2 leaves SIN for SYD before QF1 arrives in SIN from SYD, which makes it impossible as QF36 (connecting off QF2) leaves SIN before QF37 (connecting to QF1) arrives.

And imagine how cosy the SIN lounge would be with 3 a380s of passengers! 

MEL services will connect.

Could take a little while before the option to connect in SIN departing MEL show up though. I think QF converted SYD-DXB-LHR to SYD-SIN-LHR quickly and will deal with things like MEL-SIN connections to SIN-LHR over the coming days.

Loads will be a factor. Say 5 passengers book F from SYD-SIN, but not onto LHR one would think that QF would love to fill those 5 seats from SIN-LHR with paying passengers from MEL rather than with upgrades.

Would love to see A380 all the way from Melbourne. But maybe it's too big as if it's full and the Sydney one is full too there would not be enough seats to get everyone to London.

Yes that is a downside. Hopefully that gets addressed but it doesn't sound likely at this stage.

The SIN JCL is a fantastic lounge, but there's no way it'll cope with this volume of premium passengers; one hopes an F lounge will be established off the back of the capacity requirement, but we'll see!

Technically it's not a J or F lounge, it's The Qantas Singapore Lounge. It's designed for all cabins and status holders that are eligible to access it.

A combined lounge is vastly inferior for First Class passengers compared with the First lounges in MEL and SYD. If they're going to fly a lot of First class passengers to/from SIN then they should provide a First Class lounge.

There's no first class lounge in LHR end either - I am sure we will survive.

In London you can use the CX FLounge or the BA FLounge.

If QF had chosen to go back to flying via HKG then there would have been the option of using the CX FLounges in HKG

The SIN routing means that a QF FLounge would add much more value than if the flights were via HKG.

Except on your return trip when you stop in the Middle East knowing your trip has only just started...

Haha yes, but doesn't bother me. Flights from Europe to the Middle East are basically regional flights, so being able to get off, and then get on the return flight ready to sleep is fine with me.

The other thing is if I was to fly via Singapore, Qantas wouldn't be my pick - Singapore Airlines has a much wider range of connections I could fly direct to, usually at lower price and comparable product.

Do both! Codeshares should mean you can go Dubai one way and Singapore home!

Indeed, always nice to have options!

I for one would prefer to go via SIN.

It would be nice to see a new QF First Class lounge in SIN but the trend these days is for QF to move to combined lounges as they've done in BNE.

I very much doubt it. BNE will become a B787 hub for QF in addition to the A330's currently flying.

Temporarily yes, with one service reduced from A380 to B787 but with the A350s coming and one or two A380s with route capacity, that may not be for long. Or that capacity could switch to alternate EU routes via PER or SIN or even direct if the ULR A350 comes to the party. Exciting possibilites ahead.

@ajstubbs:

Without new confirmed orders, with what is already coming and what is known to be leaving, I don't see much in the way of new routes.

Don't worry about us Adelaide folk. We get a great schedule through DXB on EK tin with evening departures and lunchtime arrivals into Europe. With wifi, shower, decent service and better cabins. :)

They are running a seasonal SYD-KIX early next year. Likely using an A330 freed up by domestic 787 flying between MEL-LAX runs (the KIX flights start after arrival of 3rd 787 and end when PER-LHR starts).

If those KIX flights prove successful, it's possible any spare A330 from these changes will be used for a full time KIX route.

Yes and for a good reason. Route clearly isn't viable otherwise there would already be a service.

I think you're ignoring the fact that most people don't actually mind why it has been done, they're just happy it has happened. Logic suggests there is an element of QF realising consumers commonly prefer SIN.

@ajstubbs:

FLX1, I maybe the exception to your rule here. I much prefer DFW (17hrs) over LAX (14hrs) if going to the US East Coast. I will certainly use QF10 London to Perth coming back as it has a perfect connection ot Canberra. Going CNB-LHR it can be either QF9 or QF2 but maybe QF2 becus it is an A380.

FLX 1 a completely unremarkable observation. To that add the fact Dubai is stretched at the seams while Singapore is looking for more business and probably offered a very good price to get two A380s a day to come by, while a single via Dubai flight would very inefficient. Passenger preference comes into it but not a lot. It is the nature of a hub and efficiencies from it. The efficiencies of Dubai have shifted now to Singapore.

Could be a good route Australia- KL, I think MAS are more open to a JV now a days...remember Q Red premium airline the QF looked at years ago

I typically fly both QF and SQ and I like the difference between the two, they are both my favourite airlines. I enjoy the best of both....But boy am I rippin' happy to see QF A380 army right back where it always belonged SYD/MEL SIN LON !!!!

You touch on the old 80/20 rule =Need to work 80% harder only to get 20% of your lost market back

If it is it would only be if you are on a QF flight number.

Chances are QF Club access at Dubai will end.

Sadly, I think you could be right. It would then be consistent with all other codeshare ports where they don't fly. Quite enjoy the SIN lounge anyway (when the showers and toilets are working)

Lounge wise it makes sense as well. It's my understanding that Qantas pay Emirates a fee for every status/premium passenger on each QF operated service.

You havent missed anything - its a huge shopping centre with no bacon

At least DXB doesn't have the hideous carpet, low ceilings and ridiculous at-the-gate security that causes a huge bottleneck at boarding. I think SIN is the most over-rated airport in the world. I avoid it like the plague!

The A330 has the upgraded Business Class, I think. The A380 won't be refurbished for a while yet. The refurbishment starts mid-2019.

On the current A380 (currently 2-2-2 configuration, will be 1-2-1 after refresh) configuration if you have a centre aisle seat you don't have to climb over anyone to get out and if flying on a cash ticket you can request a points upgrade to First.

Speak the later A330 is the direct connection flight to QF2 so there is no hanging around. The A380 is for Singapore and other Asia connections.

Would rather get the A380 and hang around if that's an option QF allows. Much prefer flying on the A380 and on a larger plane there's a better chance of upgrades.

You are not the only one  mate .  Perhaps a Per   BKK A330 would also help  Albeit compete with the TG 787 8   However heaps of belly load perishable freight here that QF is missing out on  not only the self loading cargo

Well it's lucky you have a choice to choose whichever airline and city you like. Competition is great isn't it?